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Old 05-15-2018, 09:52 PM   #1
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Default In state vs out of state recruits

This is my version of the story, as I understood it. On 107.5 this afternoon, Frank said he has tried hard to recruit every high-profile player from South Carolina since he started at USC. And he said it is easier to recruit players from outside of SC. The instate players seem to have a built in aversion to attending USC. With the out of state players, he tries to sell them on why USC would be a good place for them. But with the SC players, he has to try to convince them why USC would not be a bad place for them. Interesting.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:55 PM   #2
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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Originally Posted by thumpin big View Post
This is my version of the story, as I understood it. On 107.5 this afternoon, Frank said he has tried hard to recruit every high-profile player from South Carolina since he started at USC. And he said it is easier to recruit players from outside of SC. The instate players seem to have a built in aversion to attending USC. With the out of state players, he tries to sell them on why USC would be a good place for them. But with the SC players, he has to try to convince them why USC would not be a bad place for them. Interesting.
The built in aversion comes from people in the ears of those instate players telling them that if they're really good they should be going to an out of state school, not a lowly instate school like Clemson or USC.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

I posted a thread about Joseph Battle from Abbeville High School a while back.

He was the only athlete in AHS history to captain both the football and basketball teams to state titles.

Frank Haith brought him to Tulsa and then he transferred to App State last season and sat out last year.

http://appstatesports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=4284

The articles written about him in the Upstate at the time said he wasn't recruited by the larger universities because they are in the habit of recruiting from the day schools now and ignore the athletes from the smaller schools.

Quote:
HIGH SCHOOL
Graduated from Abbeville High School in Abbeville, S.C.
Was the 2015-16 Gatorade Men's Basketball Player of the Year, as well as Mr. Basketball in the state of South Carolina.
Averaged 31.0 points, 7.0 rebounds and 3.0 steals per game as a senior, earning Class 2A Player of the Year honors and leading the Panthers to the Class 2A state championship.
Scored 32 points in the state title game.
Averaged 23.0 points and 6.0 rebounds as a junior and shot 50.0 percent from the field in each of his last two years.
For his career, averaged 23.0 points, 6.6 rebounds and 2.0 steals per contest.
Set a school record by scoring more than 1,800 points.
Was the state's leading scorer as a senior and earned Class 2A Region 2 Player of the Year honors.
Was also a standout football star as a prolific dual-threat quarterback, leading AHS to the 2015 Class 2A state title, accounting for six touchdowns in the championship game.
South Carolina High School Football Offensive Player of the Year.
He's 6'3"/181 and possesses the leadership qualities we sorely needed this past season, but he never got an offer from us or Clemson.

I think recruiters take the easy route and go to the day schools for recruits now. Our WBB and men's baseball teams have had plenty of SC kids on them.

JMO.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:46 AM   #4
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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Originally Posted by thumpin big View Post
This is my version of the story, as I understood it. On 107.5 this afternoon, Frank said he has tried hard to recruit every high-profile player from South Carolina since he started at USC. And he said it is easier to recruit players from outside of SC. The instate players seem to have a built in aversion to attending USC. With the out of state players, he tries to sell them on why USC would be a good place for them. But with the SC players, he has to try to convince them why USC would not be a bad place for them. Interesting.
To change that we have to start making the NCAAs every year and advance every other time and not go one and out. Eddie Fogler missed the boat with his two appearances by not advancing and then capitalizing on the momentum. Missing the NCAAs a year here and there won't affect us too negatively, but making it in only once or twice a decade enables the negative recruiting.

Frank is a good coach. Maybe a great coach. But his recruiting has to improve. Attrition is an issue too.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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To change that we have to start making the NCAAs every year and advance every other time and not go one and out. Eddie Fogler missed the boat with his two appearances by not advancing and then capitalizing on the momentum. Missing the NCAAs a year here and there won't affect us too negatively, but making it in only once or twice a decade enables the negative recruiting.

Frank is a good coach. Maybe a great coach. But his recruiting has to improve. Attrition is an issue too.
Frank is a good Coach but quite frankly not a good recruiter. He was not a good recruiter at KSU and nothing has changed. His recruiting no brainier types late in the process is a terrible plan and one of the reasons we are behind on the high profile instate guys. At this point he is what he is and I am tired of the excuses for him on why he cannot recruit talent to SC. To many mid majors land talent every year for that to hold water. When you show little respect to your players it gets around in the recruiting circles.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

Complaining without solutions is just whining.

I'm sure there are lots of excuses as to why we can't land consistent instate high talented players. I can throw out a few, too. The difference is, between me and Frank, only one of us can fix it. Perhaps instead of making the excuse for his lack of success at recruiting, he should be looking at why he can't overcome a preconceived and errant notion?
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

I dont know why some feel CFM is not recruiting hard or isnt a good coach. Its plain as day the reason whey in state kids dont come to the in state schools. It is two fold.

1. We are very close to tobacco road, especially the areas close to the NC state line. It wasnt too long ago the only TV coverage you got in basketball was acc games. Even when SC wasnt in the acc most counties north of Columbia was getting more acc coverage than SC coverage. Hell, it still rings true today, try getting a basketball game or baseball game on the radio or TV in Horry County, YOU CANT. If it isnt on the SEC Network you aint watching it.

2. CFM style of play really isnt for the 4 and 5 star kid who thinks he is the next great NBA player. Those kids dont wont to go hard on defense like they do on offense, period. They also have a problem with coaches getting in their faces during the games.

Actually its 3 fold.

3. AAU coaches are crooked as hell and will point a kid to the blue blood teams as long as Nike or Under Armor ect ect is greasing them in the correct manner.

Its really as simple as those 3 things.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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I dont know why some feel CFM is not recruiting hard or isnt a good coach. Its plain as day the reason whey in state kids dont come to the in state schools. It is two fold.

1. We are very close to tobacco road, especially the areas close to the NC state line. It wasnt too long ago the only TV coverage you got in basketball was acc games. Even when SC wasnt in the acc most counties north of Columbia was getting more acc coverage than SC coverage. Hell, it still rings true today, try getting a basketball game or baseball game on the radio or TV in Horry County, YOU CANT. If it isnt on the SEC Network you aint watching it.

2. CFM style of play really isnt for the 4 and 5 star kid who thinks he is the next great NBA player. Those kids dont wont to go hard on defense like they do on offense, period. They also have a problem with coaches getting in their faces during the games.

Actually its 3 fold.

3. AAU coaches are crooked as hell and will point a kid to the blue blood teams as long as Nike or Under Armor ect ect is greasing them in the correct manner.

Its really as simple as those 3 things.
Its not just losing kids to the tobacco road schools I get that. We lost Shuler to Ole Miss and Nesmith to Vandy. Those are two 4 star players we needed. FM just does not have a good recruiting plan and needs better recruiters on his Staff bottom line. Nobody is expecting us to land the elite but we do expect to get the good players in your own back yard. If somehow we lose Burns to UT I think the writing is on the wall for FM.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:15 PM   #9
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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Its not just losing kids to the tobacco road schools I get that. We lost Shuler to Ole Miss and Nesmith to Vandy. Those are two 4 star players we needed. FM just does not have a good recruiting plan and needs better recruiters on his Staff bottom line. Nobody is expecting us to land the elite but we do expect to get the good players in your own back yard. If somehow we lose Burns to UT I think the writing is on the wall for FM.
This has been going on for years. Long before Martin became the coach. And, its much ado about nothing. It really makes no difference where players come from. You need good players, but they do not have to come from the state of SC. What Frank should do is tell the good instate players right up front that he doesn't want to waste his time or theirs if they have already decided they are not coming to USC. He should have done that with Zion Williamson. Frank wasted a lot of time and money trying to recruit Williamson when he never had a chance to get him. I don't care if Frank never recruits a player from SC. I only care that he wins games.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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Its not just losing kids to the tobacco road schools I get that. We lost Shuler to Ole Miss and Nesmith to Vandy. Those are two 4 star players we needed. FM just does not have a good recruiting plan and needs better recruiters on his Staff bottom line. Nobody is expecting us to land the elite but we do expect to get the good players in your own back yard. If somehow we lose Burns to UT I think the writing is on the wall for FM.
..Those two didnt want to go hard on defense. Have you watched Shuler play?? He doesnt know what defense is, same with Nesmith. I agree they were needed here but their game or state of mind does not match up with what CFM does.
Even if they did come here I dont know if they would have made an impact. CFM wants 98% of the points coming off of defensive plays.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:24 PM   #11
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

It's not really shocking, neither school is really known for basketball. Many South Carolinian basketball players are often Duke/UNC fans from a young age. So the perception for many of these players is that if you're serious about basketball you go elsewhere. Also not to mention that many players don't want to stay home for various reasons. The only way I see this changing is with consistent results. For example, I'm pretty confident that Girls 12 and under in SC that love basketball are already fantasizing about coming to play here .
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:38 PM   #12
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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This has been going on for years. Long before Martin became the coach. And, its much ado about nothing. It really makes no difference where players come from. You need good players, but they do not have to come from the state of SC. What Frank should do is tell the good instate players right up front that he doesn't want to waste his time or theirs if they have already decided they are not coming to USC. He should have done that with Zion Williamson. Frank wasted a lot of time and money trying to recruit Williamson when he never had a chance to get him. I don't care if Frank never recruits a player from SC. I only care that he wins games.
FM could not recruit at Kansas St, a Program that other than his tenure always had high level players. Its not just a coincidence that he cannot recruit here. I will pull for him and hope he wins every game but the fact is he has never recruited very well. I mean we can make all the excuses we want for him but the fact is its been a problem for him for years. All I hear on the pay sites is all the kids love FM but that facts don't back that up.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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FM could not recruit at Kansas St, a Program that other than his tenure always had high level players. Its not just a coincidence that he cannot recruit here. I will pull for him and hope he wins every game but the fact is he has never recruited very well. I mean we can make all the excuses we want for him but the fact is its been a problem for him for years. All I hear on the pay sites is all the kids love FM but that facts don't back that up.
Martin was the first coach to make the NCAAs at K-State in 11 years.

He made it in 4 of his 5 seasons.

Try again with the Kansas State always has great recruiting.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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FM could not recruit at Kansas St, a Program that other than his tenure always had high level players. Its not just a coincidence that he cannot recruit here. I will pull for him and hope he wins every game but the fact is he has never recruited very well. I mean we can make all the excuses we want for him but the fact is its been a problem for him for years. All I hear on the pay sites is all the kids love FM but that facts don't back that up.
For a guy who couldn't recruit, Frank did remarkably well at KState. Won at least 21 games every year he was there.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:58 PM   #15
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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For a guy who couldn't recruit, Frank did remarkably well at KState. Won at least 21 games every year he was there.
21 wins is not good enough and that's why he was basically forced out. Go over to KSU board and ask around and you will see their Fans and Admin wanted him out. You are a FM jock sniffer I get that - he does no wrong in your eyes - and that's fine. The reality is we are struggling recruiting wise because he is a bad recruiter.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:02 PM   #16
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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Martin was the first coach to make the NCAAs at K-State in 11 years.

He made it in 4 of his 5 seasons.

Try again with the Kansas State always has great recruiting.
KSU has a long long history of NCAA Berths -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas...all#Postseason


so you need to try again. The facts are FM cannot recruit or we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Yes or No.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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This has been going on for years. Long before Martin became the coach. And, its much ado about nothing. It really makes no difference where players come from. You need good players, but they do not have to come from the state of SC. What Frank should do is tell the good instate players right up front that he doesn't want to waste his time or theirs if they have already decided they are not coming to USC. He should have done that with Zion Williamson. Frank wasted a lot of time and money trying to recruit Williamson when he never had a chance to get him. I don't care if Frank never recruits a player from SC. I only care that he wins games.
First, that's part of the problem.

Second, our best run in the NCAA tournament was on the backs of two instate talents. Sure, it doesn't matter where you get them from (I'd take a handful of Duane Notices right now), but it does matter when just getting one or two of the dudes within a 1.5 hour radius could make you a serious contender.

Third, yeah...historically we haven't done it. That's fine. And it is an uphill battle to change the mindset--especially when march rolls around 9 times out of 10 the high school students can't watch the Gamecocks play.


I've got no coaching experience, but if I'm Frank Martin, my number one priority is to try to lock down the state as opposed to searching for diamonds in the rough from Gabon and Eastern Europe. I don't know how to do that, and apparently Frank doesn't either, but I'm not sure throwing up your hands and saying 'I don't get it' is a good start.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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21 wins is not good enough and that's why he was basically forced out. Go over to KSU board and ask around and you will see their Fans and Admin wanted him out. You are a FM jock sniffer I get that - he does no wrong in your eyes - and that's fine. The reality is we are struggling recruiting wise because he is a bad recruiter.

BS. You don't know what you're talking about. He averaged 23.4 wins per year at KState. In five seasons he went to the NCAAT four times, including an Elite 8, and the NIT once. KState would not want to get rid of a coach who did that because of his record. If they wanted him gone, it had to be for other reasons. I don't care if he is a "bad recruiter" in your eyes. If he's a bad recruiter, he is great at making winners out of untalented players.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:14 PM   #19
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

Someone needs to ask Clyde Trapp why he chose Clemson instead of SC - it may be a wake up call for some of you. Losing good players to Clemson, Ole Miss, and Vandy, players FM recruited and wanted, yet all our fans can say now is those players are not FM type players. If thats the case why did we recruit them?
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:19 PM   #20
thumpin big
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Default Re: In state vs out of state recruits

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Originally Posted by BringBackGarcia View Post
First, that's part of the problem.

Second, our best run in the NCAA tournament was on the backs of two instate talents. Sure, it doesn't matter where you get them from (I'd take a handful of Duane Notices right now), but it does matter when just getting one or two of the dudes within a 1.5 hour radius could make you a serious contender.

Third, yeah...historically we haven't done it. That's fine. And it is an uphill battle to change the mindset--especially when march rolls around 9 times out of 10 the high school students can't watch the Gamecocks play.


I've got no coaching experience, but if I'm Frank Martin, my number one priority is to try to lock down the state as opposed to searching for diamonds in the rough from Gabon and Eastern Europe. I don't know how to do that, and apparently Frank doesn't either, but I'm not sure throwing up your hands and saying 'I don't get it' is a good start.
Why is it important to "lock down the state"??? Frank is trying to recruit the best players from SC. What would you have him do differently?
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