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Old 10-10-2018, 03:40 PM   #81
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Originally Posted by pitchcock View Post
He hasn't been on campus a year yet.

He's already passed Urich on the depth chart.

He threw for over 10,000 yards in 3 years, so I'm still baffled by guys saying he can't throw.

He was 40-3 in HS, so he's a winner.

He has some things to work on, as do most Freshmen. I think our fanbase has to get out of the mentality that all Freshmen step on campus ready to start...they don't. We just have to play an inordinate amount of them because our depth is so bad.

He deserves a couple of years at least to see how he adjusts and improves before we start moving him around the field.
I hear you on the patience. However, I just don't see him playing QB here. HS really doesn't matter at all. And if we wait a couple years before we move him around, he loses significant time to develop into whatever position he moves to (assuming he does actually move to a different position).
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:54 AM   #82
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Default Re: Ground game issues

we were calling plenty of outside runs vs mizzou, the problem was they were getting blown up too often.
i think ty'son when hes on is our most talented back, best combo of size speed vision and feet. the problem last year was consistency. this year i think its mostly just being able to stay on the field. it may be a figment of my imagination or me trying to explain away why he hasnt been as productive but i think rico has put on too much weight since his freshman season. i just dont see the same burst, moves or quick feet from him.
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:19 AM   #83
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Default Re: Ground game issues

I think if there’s any position that gets overrated players coming out of high school, it’s runningbacks. Seems to be so many 4 star backs that just don’t live up to the billing, as opposed to say a 4 star cornerback or something like that. I guess it’s easier to make a highlight tape as a running back, and garner enough attention to get 4 stars in high school when they’re just physically more gifted than the rest of everyone on the field. The running back is maybe the most athletic player on the field in highschool. It’s time we get a back that can take it 60-70 yards to the house with break away speed no matter who the opponent is. That upstate team is really starting to run the ball well, and has a stable of backs that can bring it any given day. I don’t ever remember seeing a back takenit 60+ yards numerous times in consecutive games. Mike Davis had his moments but we need an elite back.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:51 AM   #84
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Default Re: Ground game issues

FWIW Zacch Pickens is averaging 7 yards per carry at fullback this season.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:14 AM   #85
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Originally Posted by pitchcock View Post
He hasn't been on campus a year yet.

He's already passed Urich on the depth chart.

He threw for over 10,000 yards in 3 years, so I'm still baffled by guys saying he can't throw.

He was 40-3 in HS, so he's a winner.

He has some things to work on, as do most Freshmen. I think our fanbase has to get out of the mentality that all Freshmen step on campus ready to start...they don't. We just have to play an inordinate amount of them because our depth is so bad.

He deserves a couple of years at least to see how he adjusts and improves before we start moving him around the field.

I honestly don't know what to make of Kereon at this time, but I do think it's weird how a Spring game and some comments that he needs to work on his throwing motion morphs into the dude is a waste. I'm still not sure what his future holds, though, just based on the recruiting. Seems like, as with the last staff, we take the best QB interested in us, which is fine, but their skill sets can vary.


I'm not sure, though, that he's the answer to the running game issues. Or if we even have any issues. I just want a back who can take some contact and make some yards--I never see that regularly from this group.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:15 AM   #86
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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FWIW Zacch Pickens is averaging 7 yards per carry at fullback this season.


We're also 12th in the conference in sacks--only with 8 this entire season.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:18 AM   #87
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Default Re: Ground game issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchcock View Post
He hasn't been on campus a year yet.

He's already passed Urich on the depth chart.

He threw for over 10,000 yards in 3 years, so I'm still baffled by guys saying he can't throw.

He was 40-3 in HS, so he's a winner.

He has some things to work on, as do most Freshmen. I think our fanbase has to get out of the mentality that all Freshmen step on campus ready to start...they don't. We just have to play an inordinate amount of them because our depth is so bad.

He deserves a couple of years at least to see how he adjusts and improves before we start moving him around the field.
I think you misunderstand the post. I'm not saying he can't ever play QB. I do not know that since I've never seen him play. All I'm saying is that he is NOT PLAYING NOW! If he is the great athlete many people say he is, and IF he is such a great runner, why not utilize him some in a way that can help the team? Those are big IFs, as I do not know having never seen him, and he may not be RB material at all, but all indications are that he has the size speed and ability to run the ball effectively. With the new red shirt rule he could play in a few games to see and if it doesn't work out then red shirt him. Of course this is a mute point if he has not been learning and working out at this position. If they were going to do this he would have needed to been practicing at the position early on.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:54 AM   #88
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Default Re: Ground game issues

I think Joyner was promised a shot at QB. After Michael graduates he will be #2 and get his shot in the spring and fall workouts in 2019.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:10 PM   #89
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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I think Joyner was promised a shot at QB. After Michael graduates he will be #2 and get his shot in the spring and fall workouts in 2019.
It's a tough spot for the staff to be in. If that ends up happening, then they're just delaying the inevitable with him.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:34 PM   #90
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Default Re: Ground game issues

Not sure why anyone would want to play a freshman, who hasn't played running back, to all of a sudden play that position against SEC teams. There is more to that position than toting the rock. If we don't use him in any blocking schemes teams will pick up and know he is getting the ball. Putting Joyner in at rb would damage his confidence and qb growth.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:00 PM   #91
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Not sure why anyone would want to play a freshman, who hasn't played running back, to all of a sudden play that position against SEC teams. There is more to that position than toting the rock. If we don't use him in any blocking schemes teams will pick up and know he is getting the ball. Putting Joyner in at rb would damage his confidence and qb growth.
Yes, just running with the ball is one thing... but running backs also need to be reasonably skilled at blocking... and that isn't a strong QB requirement.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:03 PM   #92
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Default Re: Ground game issues

Wildcat with Joyner would make the most sense IMHO, if he ever wants to see the field short term.

Last edited by Absfract; 10-11-2018 at 01:04 PM.. Reason: sp
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:03 PM   #93
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Default Re: Ground game issues

You take a chance on a guy like Joyner because if he gets even decent accuracy together he has a legit chance at being a game changer. Most game changing QBs in college, the ones who elevate their team to new levels, are dual threat guys.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:22 PM   #94
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Default Re: Ground game issues

With the way Texas A&M shut down Kentucky's offense last week (which is what our offense would look like with Joyner in at wildcat), this likely ISN'T the best week for USC fans to think about having Joyner see the field.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:24 PM   #95
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Originally Posted by Absfract View Post
Yes, just running with the ball is one thing... but running backs also need to be reasonably skilled at blocking... and that isn't a strong QB requirement.
Our #1 RB, Rico Dowdle, was a QB in HS. They taught him to be a RB in college due to his running skills. Blocking is a learned skill, not one that requires any certain athletic skills. Anyone can be taught to block as long as they have the will to do it. As I mentioned earlier though, unless he had been working out in that position earlier in the year, it would probably be too late for this year to expect Dak to be able to contribute in that position. It is not so much learning to block, but learning the offense and the responsibilities associated with that position. That is what takes the most time and repetition.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:38 PM   #96
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Default Re: Ground game issues

USC does not have a good running game, in my opinion. Mostly because they don't have an offensive strategy that emphasizes the run. USC likes the pass more than the run. They like the "big play" more than keeping possession of the ball. eating the clock, and keeping the opponent's offense on the sideline. They think that the fans like "the big play" and won't come out to see a running team. The coaches want to keep their jobs, and the administration wants paying customers. And they think they won't get the paying customers without throwing lots of passes.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:53 PM   #97
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Originally Posted by Cornerback View Post
Our #1 RB, Rico Dowdle, was a QB in HS. They taught him to be a RB in college due to his running skills. Blocking is a learned skill, not one that requires any certain athletic skills. Anyone can be taught to block as long as they have the will to do it. As I mentioned earlier though, unless he had been working out in that position earlier in the year, it would probably be too late for this year to expect Dak to be able to contribute in that position. It is not so much learning to block, but learning the offense and the responsibilities associated with that position. That is what takes the most time and repetition.
Agreed... I guess my point is that one is usually not QB with a part time emphasis on RB... and vice versa. Gaining the skills (inherent or learned) takes dedication to it 100% IMHO.

Last edited by Absfract; 10-11-2018 at 02:54 PM.. Reason: sp
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:18 PM   #98
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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USC does not have a good running game, in my opinion. Mostly because they don't have an offensive strategy that emphasizes the run. USC likes the pass more than the run. They like the "big play" more than keeping possession of the ball. eating the clock, and keeping the opponent's offense on the sideline. They think that the fans like "the big play" and won't come out to see a running team. The coaches want to keep their jobs, and the administration wants paying customers. And they think they won't get the paying customers without throwing lots of passes.
Winning brings money to a program big plays are temporary
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:22 PM   #99
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Originally Posted by thumpin big View Post
USC does not have a good running game, in my opinion. Mostly because they don't have an offensive strategy that emphasizes the run. USC likes the pass more than the run. They like the "big play" more than keeping possession of the ball. eating the clock, and keeping the opponent's offense on the sideline. They think that the fans like "the big play" and won't come out to see a running team. The coaches want to keep their jobs, and the administration wants paying customers. And they think they won't get the paying customers without throwing lots of passes.
Woah, hold on...you think our coaches offensive play calling is based on what they think the fans want to see?? Man thatís...some kinda theory. Our fans want wins and I donít think they really care how the team gets it. Also, I donít think our coaches are really concerned as to what the fans want to see.

One, if you actually look at the numbers the total rush attempts to total pass attempts are pretty balanced. Two, they like to control the tempo. That means they want to be able to go fast when they want and slow it down when they want based on how the game is going.
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:23 PM   #100
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Originally Posted by Cornerback View Post
Our #1 RB, Rico Dowdle, was a QB in HS. They taught him to be a RB in college due to his running skills. Blocking is a learned skill, not one that requires any certain athletic skills. Anyone can be taught to block as long as they have the will to do it. As I mentioned earlier though, unless he had been working out in that position earlier in the year, it would probably be too late for this year to expect Dak to be able to contribute in that position. It is not so much learning to block, but learning the offense and the responsibilities associated with that position. That is what takes the most time and repetition.
Eh...Rico was a RB converted to QB for his HS team because they needed a quality athlete there. In his senior highlight film, he doesn't even throw the ball once. So this is a much different situation than Joyner.
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