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Old 11-13-2017, 08:51 PM   #21
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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Originally Posted by eatlighting View Post
I canít blame Hurst if he wants to go, but Iíd love to see him stay. Bailey and Fenton both need another year. They are good, but better talent has gone undrafted. I guess it is good to have this problem again. I wonder if Champ will do a better job of re-recruiting. That was such a problem for us with SOS.
Bailey and Fenton will only leave if they get solid draft grades back from the NFL Advisory Board. If they get a round they're happy to be drafted in back after they submit their paperwork they'll leave, if they don't they'll be back. Strictly a business decision.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:16 PM   #22
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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He played minor league baseball?
You must have him confused with someone else
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:38 PM   #23
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

Fenton shouldn't leave. He wouldn't be a first rounder. Very good player, and could be great with another year.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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Originally Posted by gotrice? View Post
Bailey and Fenton will only leave if they get solid draft grades back from the NFL Advisory Board. If they get a round they're happy to be drafted in back after they submit their paperwork they'll leave, if they don't they'll be back. Strictly a business decision.
A business decision that we’ve seen fail for many of our players. All I’m saying is that I hope Champ does his best to keep the guys here if they are graded anywhere below third rounders. That usually means they will drop even further. We didn’t do that years ago when we lost guys like Quarrels and Hampton and others who didn’t make a blip after they left, but they had a big impact for us. I realize some of those guys may have had some outside issues that pushed them forward, but they would’ve improved their stock dramatically if they had stayed. I know it is a fine line between fans being selfish and the future for these kids, but some of them see a little money and jump too early because there are people out there looking to make a buck. We did nothing to push back against that before. Honestly, it is one of the best things about Dabo as a coach in my opinion. He has gotten some guys to turn down some real money, come back, excel even more, and make even more money than they would have. Our fans like to knock him for that, but it is smart.
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:20 AM   #25
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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Are you certain?
I also heard Hayde is fone ...real fone
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:03 AM   #26
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

Why do we think Hayden will take the $ and run? He took the money to play pro baseball. All indications are he LOVES playing for the Gamecocks. I tend to think he is one of those "Let's get the gang back together (Deebo and BAW) and make a run!" type of guys. That being said if he goes then more power to him.

I mean we always talk about Next Year but good lord...Turner, Dowdle, Denson, Edwards, Deebo, the Smith Brothers...and on and on and on. I think Fenton probably goes but based on the contribution of the young DBs, I have faith that Fenton is replaceable.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:05 AM   #27
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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A business decision that weíve seen fail for many of our players. All Iím saying is that I hope Champ does his best to keep the guys here if they are graded anywhere below third rounders. That usually means they will drop even further. We didnít do that years ago when we lost guys like Quarrels and Hampton and others who didnít make a blip after they left, but they had a big impact for us. I realize some of those guys may have had some outside issues that pushed them forward, but they wouldíve improved their stock dramatically if they had stayed. I know it is a fine line between fans being selfish and the future for these kids, but some of them see a little money and jump too early because there are people out there looking to make a buck. We did nothing to push back against that before. Honestly, it is one of the best things about Dabo as a coach in my opinion. He has gotten some guys to turn down some real money, come back, excel even more, and make even more money than they would have. Our fans like to knock him for that, but it is smart.

He just upped their salary at Clemson to make up the difference they were losing not going to the NFL.



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I agree with Cack.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:18 AM   #28
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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Originally Posted by eatlighting View Post
A business decision that we’ve seen fail for many of our players. All I’m saying is that I hope Champ does his best to keep the guys here if they are graded anywhere below third rounders. That usually means they will drop even further. We didn’t do that years ago when we lost guys like Quarrels and Hampton and others who didn’t make a blip after they left, but they had a big impact for us. I realize some of those guys may have had some outside issues that pushed them forward, but they would’ve improved their stock dramatically if they had stayed. I know it is a fine line between fans being selfish and the future for these kids, but some of them see a little money and jump too early because there are people out there looking to make a buck. We did nothing to push back against that before. Honestly, it is one of the best things about Dabo as a coach in my opinion. He has gotten some guys to turn down some real money, come back, excel even more, and make even more money than they would have. Our fans like to knock him for that, but it is smart.
The way you word it, Dabo is doing something selfless. He's a car salesman who gets them to believe it. It has worked out sometimes, but do you think he stays up at night worrying about what if they get injured? Do you think he agonizes and runs earning projections for the kids?

He cares about the Ws and will exploit whatever it takes, even baptisms.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:49 AM   #29
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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The way you word it, Dabo is doing something selfless. He's a car salesman who gets them to believe it. It has worked out sometimes, but do you think he stays up at night worrying about what if they get injured? Do you think he agonizes and runs earning projections for the kids?

He cares about the Ws and will exploit whatever it takes, even baptisms.
I’m the last person to stick up for Blabo. I know he is all about himself at the end of the day. That said, Spiller, Boyd, and Beasley come to mind as kids who he re-recruited (lied to and exploited, if you’d rather). They came back, had a big impact, and Spiller and Beasley picked up more dough in the draft. Those two guys in particular had to have graded much higher than Fenton and Bailey will. Boyd probably hurt his stock, but he wouldn’t have panned out either way because he was only good against crappy ACC competition. Again, I just hope to see more effort there. I don’t want us to manipulate kids or anything, but people can’t act like there aren’t shady agents on the flip side of that coin, waiting to make a quick buck and hang these kids out to dry. Spurrier’s policy was live and let live with juniors in the draft. A noble position in some ways, but just like assistant coaches, you have to at least try to keep some guys in the fold when possible.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:04 PM   #30
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

I don't know who will leave early, but the only player that should leave early is HH.

For selfish reason, I hope he stays.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:40 PM   #31
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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Iím the last person to stick up for Blabo. I know he is all about himself at the end of the day. That said, Spiller, Boyd, and Beasley come to mind as kids who he re-recruited (lied to and exploited, if youíd rather). They came back, had a big impact, and Spiller and Beasley picked up more dough in the draft. Those two guys in particular had to have graded much higher than Fenton and Bailey will. Boyd probably hurt his stock, but he wouldnít have panned out either way because he was only good against crappy ACC competition. Again, I just hope to see more effort there. I donít want us to manipulate kids or anything, but people canít act like there arenít shady agents on the flip side of that coin, waiting to make a quick buck and hang these kids out to dry. Spurrierís policy was live and let live with juniors in the draft. A noble position in some ways, but just like assistant coaches, you have to at least try to keep some guys in the fold when possible.
I think this is an interesting philosophical question. Like you said, there's potential to help but also equal potential to harm. Does the coach have a higher responsibility to his team or the individual player? What has a greater moral impact, persuading a kid to come back to play his last season to help the entirety of the team and university or encouraging him to pursue his own choice at the risk of harming the rest of the 100+ kids? Does the player owe anything to the team? Should he weigh in his impact on leaving others over the earning/risk potential?
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:47 PM   #32
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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He played minor league baseball?
pshh, get outta here no he didnt!
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:57 PM   #33
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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Originally Posted by Emery View Post
I think this is an interesting philosophical question. Like you said, there's potential to help but also equal potential to harm. Does the coach have a higher responsibility to his team or the individual player? What has a greater moral impact, persuading a kid to come back to play his last season to help the entirety of the team and university or encouraging him to pursue his own choice at the risk of harming the rest of the 100+ kids? Does the player owe anything to the team? Should he weigh in his impact on leaving others over the earning/risk potential?
My take and only my take, is if the coach is really "all about" his players then he should be advising them what is best for their situation. Everyone is different but with how much money is on the line in the NFL there is a lot of pressure. And the NFL will only affect a handful of guys on our team so its not like he has to deal with everyone going through this. But its the right thing to do to work with the kids thinking about going to the draft.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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Originally Posted by eatlighting View Post
Iím the last person to stick up for Blabo. I know he is all about himself at the end of the day. That said, Spiller, Boyd, and Beasley come to mind as kids who he re-recruited (lied to and exploited, if youíd rather). They came back, had a big impact, and Spiller and Beasley picked up more dough in the draft. Those two guys in particular had to have graded much higher than Fenton and Bailey will. Boyd probably hurt his stock, but he wouldnít have panned out either way because he was only good against crappy ACC competition. Again, I just hope to see more effort there. I donít want us to manipulate kids or anything, but people canít act like there arenít shady agents on the flip side of that coin, waiting to make a quick buck and hang these kids out to dry. Spurrierís policy was live and let live with juniors in the draft. A noble position in some ways, but just like assistant coaches, you have to at least try to keep some guys in the fold when possible.
Kyle Parker come to mind? The guy that turned down a nice bonus to play baseball because Dabs said he was better than half the QBs on NFL rosters? He came back and did not have a good Senior year, did not get a whiff from the NFL, and played baseball with a smaller bonus.

DeAndre Hopkins? Dabs was dead set against him turning pro but he went anyway. Dabo said "I felt like another year would be beneficial to him from an overall growth standpoint. That's my opinion." Dabo was shocked that Nuk would leave, especially after Dabs had trotted out the Rubbermaid tub and had Nuk baptized on the field during the season.

Nuk went in the First Round, was the second WR picked, signed for a lot of money, and has been all-Rookie and all-Pro. Dabo thought he should come back for the same reason that he thinks everyone should come back - to make him look good by winning more games.

Hopkins is so enamored of his Clemson experience that he gives his Alma Mater as "Daniel High School" when he does the pre-game introduction.
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Old 11-15-2017, 03:07 AM   #35
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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If my math is correct (76 current scholarship players - 11 seniors - 2 NFL (Hurst/Fenton) = 63 + 25 LOIs (includes Ty'Son Williams & Tyreek Johnson) = 88 (will need 3 current players to leave to get to 85) .. We should be back at 85 scholarships. I wasn't aware that we are only playing with 76 this year.

Those 9 spots are going to help our depth issues going forward.
Itís actually more complicated than that. Tyíson is already included in the 76 because he is on schollie now, but he is being included in the 2018 class by rule so we are actually adding 24 new in the 2018 class. Plus BAW is also included in the 76 but heís coming back for another year. So weíre going to need attrition of 4. Iím counting only Hurst leaving.
76-11=65 + 24=89
Also, Iím not sure if Charleston was only given a 1 year schollie or not.
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Old 11-15-2017, 06:33 AM   #36
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

The coaching profession seems like a small world. Does Muschamp know nfl coaches that grade talent and can give a fair assessment of whether or not someone will likely get drafted. I didnít think Fenton would leave early, but if there were credible nfl coaches saying heíd be on their draft board that would be valuable information. I canít remember the db we had that left early and he didnít get picked. I think it was the same year Quarles left.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:11 AM   #37
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Default Re: Something to keep in mind about next year

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You must have him confused with someone else
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