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Old 08-14-2017, 07:43 PM   #21
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

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Originally Posted by smoovecock View Post
Along with some of the things already mentioned. I think NASCAR lacks drivers who have character. If you think of Petty, Dale, Swervin Irvin, Handsome Harry ect ect. NASCAR has no guys with character. There always seemed to be a driver that had a real beef or dislike for other certain drivers. They banged around tracks at 215mph on a regular bases. It was fun. Now it is cookie cutter with guys driving cars with no skills or character.
Agreed. We have "Cars of Tomorrow" as the standard where you can't tell one manufacturer from the next. Unintentionally, the same happened with the drivers. They all fit the same template.
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Old 08-15-2017, 09:52 AM   #22
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

If NASCAR was smart they would start testing the waters of regional races. Get tracks such as MB Speedway and maybe some of the other small tracks to have races with big names involved or big names kids ect ect. See what the response would be for a year or two and go from there.
I here places like Hickory NC and others in the Charlotte and Gboro areas are doing well. Some of the old NASCAR short tracks could be revived. I know Rockingham could probably be reopened, but it would probably take a lot of Round Up to do it. ...Any of you know if any of the other old NASCAR tracks would be able to reopen...??
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Old 08-15-2017, 10:31 AM   #23
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

I think the point Harvick was trying to make is that Nascar as a sport hasn't enjoyed the synergy of a Dale Jr championship. I think all of the pundits and fans would agree that would have been the best thing for the sport over the past 10 years. As the old saying goes, a rising tide lifts all ships.
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:43 AM   #24
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

The problem with NASCAR is that none of these current drivers, outside of Dale Jr., are bringing fans in. If you go to a race I'd venture that close to half of the driver's shirts that you see are Dale Jr. None of the other drivers are doing enough to grow the sport is where I think the issue lies.

None of these current guys fit the mold of what fans are used to when it comes to NASCAR drivers. And because of that, the fans almost seem apathetic to what's going on in the sport now a days. All I know is that NASCAR better do something...and quick.
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:53 AM   #25
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

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King Richard is the greatest of all time. If they want to bring back NASCAR, get rid of the restrictor plates and all the other BS rules they're created. Let's get back to racing boys.
I agree. There is a reason he's still called "King" to this day. We pull for the 43 in our house. I can't tell you how many times we stopped in Randleman on our way to VA when I was growing up.

I remember camping out in the infield at Darlington. Those were the days. But I'll be honest...the movie "CARS" is what got Little Man interested in NASCAR. He asked tons of questions about racing back then. But when we took him to the Southern 500 in 2012, he got hooked.
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Old 08-15-2017, 11:59 AM   #26
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

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I think the point Harvick was trying to make is that Nascar as a sport hasn't enjoyed the synergy of a Dale Jr championship. I think all of the pundits and fans would agree that would have been the best thing for the sport over the past 10 years. As the old saying goes, a rising tide lifts all ships.
I think a great many fans expected, albeit unrealistically, for Jr to be a carbon copy of Sr, and pick up right where he left off. But he isn't his dad. No one will be. Just as Kyle isn't, and never will be, King Richard.
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:02 PM   #27
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

Superspeedways didn't help NASCAR's cause either. I remember the days when Talladega was a novelty.
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:21 PM   #28
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

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The problem with NASCAR is that none of these current drivers, outside of Dale Jr., are bringing fans in. If you go to a race I'd venture that close to half of the driver's shirts that you see are Dale Jr. None of the other drivers are doing enough to grow the sport is where I think the issue lies.
And I'd argue that Dale Jr isn't bringing in new fans either. As has already been mentioned, Dale Jr got the lion-share of his dad's fans after he passed away in 2001. I'm not sure how many NEW fans he brings in.

Now in the vein of full disclosure, I was a HUGE Dale Sr fan. And when Jr was starting out in the late 1990's I pulled for both of them. After Dale passed away in 2001, I stayed with the car and it's new driver. I followed Kevin to the 4 team after he moved several years ago. I figured Dale Jr had enough fans, he'd be OK without me. I still like him, and pull for him, but if it came down to a door to door finish 4 vs 88, I'm pulling for the 4 car.

The reason Nascar is struggling is multi-faceted. It's the cost of attendance at an actual race. It's improved TV coverage. It's the lack of "good racing" at "cookie cutter" tracks. It's the dilution of the market outside of it's core demographic. It's also the aging of that core demographic. And to be fair, all of sports have suffered a drop off in attendance not just Nascar.
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:30 PM   #29
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

Up until the 90s, there was always a sense of Us vs. Them, even with the Southern drivers.

Then it became just Them after the older drivers left.

The racing with the newer younger drivers is actually pretty good now, but the challenge is building a link between the fans and the very young drivers.

I call it Bandolero Economics. The Bandolero cars are great father/son projects but nobody watches the races.

Maybe you start with manufacturer rivalries and go from there.
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:44 PM   #30
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

I have never gotten into Nascar. But as an outsider I saw a sport that expanded way too fast in the 90's. I never could figure out why they started racing out in Cali and other places. Always seemed like a niche southern sport that did very well in the region.
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:50 PM   #31
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

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And I'd argue that Dale Jr isn't bringing in new fans either. As has already been mentioned, Dale Jr got the lion-share of his dad's fans after he passed away in 2001. I'm not sure how many NEW fans he brings in.

Now in the vein of full disclosure, I was a HUGE Dale Sr fan. And when Jr was starting out in the late 1990's I pulled for both of them. After Dale passed away in 2001, I stayed with the car and it's new driver. I followed Kevin to the 4 team after he moved several years ago. I figured Dale Jr had enough fans, he'd be OK without me. I still like him, and pull for him, but if it came down to a door to door finish 4 vs 88, I'm pulling for the 4 car.

The reason Nascar is struggling is multi-faceted. It's the cost of attendance at an actual race. It's improved TV coverage. It's the lack of "good racing" at "cookie cutter" tracks. It's the dilution of the market outside of it's core demographic. It's also the aging of that core demographic. And to be fair, all of sports have suffered a drop off in attendance not just Nascar.
That's a pretty good analysis. I have always pulled for the Ford drivers over the years, but what Harvick did after Dale Sr.'s death was nothing short of amazing.

Kevin has a shot at winning if he's close to the leaders at the end of the race and I pull for him, too. Kyle Busch has also won many times with total junk for a car.

Roush-Fenway seems to have gone over the side of a cliff since Jack had that last airplane accident.

I knew Penske would kill it after they came back to Ford. BK and Harvick are the voices of the sport now. Johnson is an introvert who's focused on winning the race, but not someone I would consider a spokesman just because he's so quiet.

A young Southern driver who upsets the table of the veteran drivers like Bill Elliott did would be just what doctor ordered right about now.
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:11 PM   #32
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

The aging demographic is definitely one problem they have (and NHRA Drag Racing has it too). The muscle car era brought in a lot of young guys that like working on cars (w/o a computer). They are 60+ now.
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Old 08-15-2017, 02:24 PM   #33
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

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I never could figure out why they started racing out in Cali and other places.
The same reason that Missouri is in the SEC.
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Old 08-15-2017, 03:53 PM   #34
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

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I have never gotten into Nascar. But as an outsider I saw a sport that expanded way too fast in the 90's. I never could figure out why they started racing out in Cali and other places. Always seemed like a niche southern sport that did very well in the region.
Using the modern era (1972 to the present) NASCAR raced 3 races in California until Ontario closed after 1980 (the 1973 Ontario race was skipped because of a change in track ownership). Then is was 2 at Riverside through 1987, then 1 at Riverside and 1 at Phoenix in 1988. Riverside closed and the race was moved to Sonoma in 1989. Cali picked up a second race in 1997 when the new track in Fontana opened. That same year, NASCAR returned to Texas for the first time since 1981. Soon after they started taking one or both races from some of the historic tracks and exported the race to another region (The expansion you made reference to, and that didn't sit well with traditional fans).
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Old 08-16-2017, 09:13 AM   #35
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

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The aging demographic is definitely one problem they have (and NHRA Drag Racing has it too). The muscle car era brought in a lot of young guys that like working on cars (w/o a computer). They are 60+ now.
^^THIS. NASCAR also had to drop RJ Reynolds as a sponsor when the laws changed.

So they had to market to the younger cellphone crowd where social media is their interest rather than stock cars.

Realistically, it's easier for people in their 60s to watch TV rather than go to the races in the sweltering heat.
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:59 PM   #36
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

Who will next year's most popular driver be?

There's yer trouble.
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Old 08-20-2017, 03:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

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Who will next year's most popular driver be?

There's yer trouble.
I think we can say it won't be Kyle Busch
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Old 08-20-2017, 10:03 PM   #38
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

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Who will next year's most popular driver be?

There's yer trouble.
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Old 08-20-2017, 10:28 PM   #39
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

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I have never gotten into Nascar. But as an outsider I saw a sport that expanded way too fast in the 90's. I never could figure out why they started racing out in Cali and other places. Always seemed like a niche southern sport that did very well in the region.
NASCAR execs thought everywhere outside the south would love NASCAR just like the south. They were totally wrong. They also have far too many rules that nobody understands. And lastly, it's way too expensive. A lot of "racing families" just can't afford to go anymore.
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Old 09-03-2017, 08:29 PM   #40
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Default Re: Harvick: Dale Jr stunted NASCAR's growth

Is anyone here at the race tonight? Last time I went to Darlington (April 2014) it was packed.

I do hope NASCAR gets back to their roots.
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