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Old 01-18-2018, 07:59 PM   #41
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Default Re: Perfect Game 2018 Preseason Rankings

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Originally Posted by USCBatgirl21 View Post
I, for one, am very interested to see how our staff adjusts to a philosophy that actually goes after batters, and doesn't try to get them to chase crap pitches after getting ahead in the count 0-2. By all accounts this is the approach that CMK and CSM will be taking. I like it!
Batgirl, I agree with you. Mark has said he wants our pitchers to throw strikes. He was upset in fall practice at the control problems some of our pitchers had. Pitch to contact and trust our defense. Don't throw all the waste pitches, This runs up the pitch count and sometimes leads to giving up walks. Mark and I are much more on the same page than Chad and I. I'm glad you see this also.
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Old 01-19-2018, 10:24 AM   #42
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Default Re: Perfect Game 2018 Preseason Rankings

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Batgirl, I agree with you. Mark has said he wants our pitchers to throw strikes. He was upset in fall practice at the control problems some of our pitchers had. Pitch to contact and trust our defense. Don't throw all the waste pitches, This runs up the pitch count and sometimes leads to giving up walks. Mark and I are much more on the same page than Chad and I. I'm glad you see this also.
I've said this all along, but unfortunately because it was seen as questioning CJM by some, it was not a welcome opinion to have. I'm also a big fan of situational pitching. I know people want to get away from that because they say it lengthens games (for some reason that's a bad thing), but it helped us win a lot of games in 2010 and 2011. If we have 12 arms on staff, USE THEM!!! Not the same 5-6 over and over again.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:15 AM   #43
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Default Re: Perfect Game 2018 Preseason Rankings

I've caught up with this thread and have come to the conclusion that we have talent, doesn't matter how good or bad, but "we have talent" has been stated no less than 25 times, therefore we are guaranteed the 2018 National Championship

Doesn't matter that we play in the toughest conference in the nation. Doesn't matter that we had ZERO guys bat over 300. Doesn't matter that we had one of the worst fielding percentages at .974 in a very long time, committing 57 errors. Doesn't matter that we hit 58 homeruns thanks to Cortes and Destino accounting for 22 of those. Doesn't matter that of the 9 series that we played against ranked teams, the only ones we won were against #25 Wright State (dropping 1 game and winning another 4-3), and against #24 Tennessee.

The program has declined year after year under Holbrook, so to say we have a certain level of talent that should guarantee us a spot in any post season just because a new coach comes in, is ridiculous. Will we make the post season? I think we probably should/will. We haven't been able to hit the ball in years, so to assume that Kingston is going to be able to walk in with Tom Herman's magical dust and field a team of Mark McGuire's is not realistic.

Like I said before, I want to see good solid fundamental Baseball and improvements. If you can do that, the wins will come. Baseball is the only game that you can't cheat the game (other than steroids). You can't throw in some gimmick plays that nobody else has seen to pull a fast one.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:18 AM   #44
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Default Re: Perfect Game 2018 Preseason Rankings

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I've said this all along, but unfortunately because it was seen as questioning CJM by some, it was not a welcome opinion to have. I'm also a big fan of situational pitching. I know people want to get away from that because they say it lengthens games (for some reason that's a bad thing), but it helped us win a lot of games in 2010 and 2011. If we have 12 arms on staff, USE THEM!!! Not the same 5-6 over and over again.
The reason Gamecock fans hate "situational pitching" is because they link that with Wack Leggett changing pitchers 16 times a game.

I'm a fan of match ups. If a batter struggles against a certain type of pitcher, and the game is on the line or it's a big moment, absolutely. I'm not a fan of 2 outs, nobody on a lefty batting .087 comes to the plate so we change pitchers to throw him a lefty.
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:30 PM   #45
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Default Re: Perfect Game 2018 Preseason Rankings

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I've caught up with this thread and have come to the conclusion that we have talent, doesn't matter how good or bad, but "we have talent" has been stated no less than 25 times, therefore we are guaranteed the 2018 National Championship

Doesn't matter that we play in the toughest conference in the nation. Doesn't matter that we had ZERO guys bat over 300. Doesn't matter that we had one of the worst fielding percentages at .974 in a very long time, committing 57 errors. Doesn't matter that we hit 58 homeruns thanks to Cortes and Destino accounting for 22 of those. Doesn't matter that of the 9 series that we played against ranked teams, the only ones we won were against #25 Wright State (dropping 1 game and winning another 4-3), and against #24 Tennessee.

The program has declined year after year under Holbrook, so to say we have a certain level of talent that should guarantee us a spot in any post season just because a new coach comes in, is ridiculous. Will we make the post season? I think we probably should/will. We haven't been able to hit the ball in years, so to assume that Kingston is going to be able to walk in with Tom Herman's magical dust and field a team of Mark McGuire's is not realistic.

Like I said before, I want to see good solid fundamental Baseball and improvements. If you can do that, the wins will come. Baseball is the only game that you can't cheat the game (other than steroids). You can't throw in some gimmick plays that nobody else has seen to pull a fast one.
Not sure what you have been reading, but fans saying that we should MAKE the playoffs isn't being in denial. The fact is that we have always, even in the down Holbrook years, recruited at a pretty good level. Simply MAKING the postseason really doesn't take that much and a program that recruits at the level that we do (even in our down years) is still better than most.

Let's also be realistic here. The new coach doesn't have to work a season one miracle for us to simply MAKE the playoffs. Last season, considered our darkest days by some of the new baseball fans here, we went 35-25. We weren't but 4 or 5 wins away from MAKING the postseason last year.

So why wouldn't a new head coach, with added fire, added motivaton and all the other intagibles mentioned in this thread, be able to do a few games better than what we had last season?

Starting weekend pitchers could be an issue, but you would think we, like everyone else, could find a few quality guys to throw out there. Quality depth could be an issue that takes a few seasons to accomplish, but instead of just throwing out comments about the elite teams we play, look at the schedule as a whole. Win a high percentage of the OOC games, go .500 in the SEC (and there are enough bad teams to offset the elite teams) and you should be able to get at or near that 40 win plateu that generally gets you in the playoffs.

Now, if someone says we should win the SEC or host, then I'm on board with you that their expectations are too high.


Why is it that the football fans can expect/demand a coach come in and in their first year go from 3 wins to making a bowl, but it's crazy for our baseball fans to expect us to go from just missing the playoffs to making them? Sorry, I don't buy it.
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:31 PM   #46
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Default Re: Perfect Game 2018 Preseason Rankings

Most diehard baseball fans believe in situational pitching. Honestly, I don't see why anyone wouldn't unless they simply don't understand the game.
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:35 PM   #47
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Default Re: Perfect Game 2018 Preseason Rankings

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Batgirl, I agree with you. Mark has said he wants our pitchers to throw strikes. He was upset in fall practice at the control problems some of our pitchers had. Pitch to contact and trust our defense. Don't throw all the waste pitches, This runs up the pitch count and sometimes leads to giving up walks. Mark and I are much more on the same page than Chad and I. I'm glad you see this also.
Personally, I believe it depends on the type of pitcher.

Some are great at pitching to contact and coaxing ground balls and some are better at fooling hitters by getting them to swing and miss.

Neither is correct and neither is incorrect. Give me a team that has a great balance of both.

Like it or not, there are times when you have to have a strikeout and it's crucial to have some on staff that can fool the hitters.
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Old 01-19-2018, 07:48 PM   #48
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Default Re: Perfect Game 2018 Preseason Rankings

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Personally, I believe it depends on the type of pitcher.

Some are great at pitching to contact and coaxing ground balls and some are better at fooling hitters by getting them to swing and miss.

Neither is correct and neither is incorrect. Give me a team that has a great balance of both.

Like it or not, there are times when you have to have a strikeout and it's crucial to have some on staff that can fool the hitters.
Strikeouts are always great but under Chad we often did not come close enough to the plate to even get the hitter to swing. I go along with what you said if we have good control type pitchers. We have not had many of them in the past few years. We gave up way too many walks and walks often turn into runs. We often walked the first batter of an inning and it cost us dearly. That was Chad/Jerry's way of pitching. Mark wants and demands strike throwers, so do I.

Do we have deep pitching talent? If so I have not seen it in recent years. To make the playoffs we must have lots of good pitchers and as Batgirl stated we need to use more than 5 or 6 pitchers.
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:13 AM   #49
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Default Re: Perfect Game 2018 Preseason Rankings

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I've caught up with this thread and have come to the conclusion that we have talent, doesn't matter how good or bad, but "we have talent" has been stated no less than 25 times, therefore we are guaranteed the 2018 National Championship

Doesn't matter that we play in the toughest conference in the nation. Doesn't matter that we had ZERO guys bat over 300. Doesn't matter that we had one of the worst fielding percentages at .974 in a very long time, committing 57 errors. Doesn't matter that we hit 58 homeruns thanks to Cortes and Destino accounting for 22 of those. Doesn't matter that of the 9 series that we played against ranked teams, the only ones we won were against #25 Wright State (dropping 1 game and winning another 4-3), and against #24 Tennessee.

The program has declined year after year under Holbrook, so to say we have a certain level of talent that should guarantee us a spot in any post season just because a new coach comes in, is ridiculous. Will we make the post season? I think we probably should/will. We haven't been able to hit the ball in years, so to assume that Kingston is going to be able to walk in with Tom Herman's magical dust and field a team of Mark McGuire's is not realistic.

Like I said before, I want to see good solid fundamental Baseball and improvements. If you can do that, the wins will come. Baseball is the only game that you can't cheat the game (other than steroids). You can't throw in some gimmick plays that nobody else has seen to pull a fast one.
Making the tournament does not equal being national champions. I donít think I ever said we should win the title. Us not making the tournament would be like Duke or UNC not making it into the basketball tournament. Should never happen.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:21 AM   #50
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Default Re: Perfect Game 2018 Preseason Rankings

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Making the tournament does not equal being national champions. I donít think I ever said we should win the title. Us not making the tournament would be like Duke or UNC not making it into the basketball tournament. Should never happen.
Agreed. It's a fireable offense. Holbrook should have been let go the first time he didn't make it. There is too much talent and tradition here not to make it.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:05 PM   #51
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Making the tournament does not equal being national champions. I donít think I ever said we should win the title. Us not making the tournament would be like Duke or UNC not making it into the basketball tournament. Should never happen.
No, it isn't. We want to think that, but we're no where close to the level in Baseball that Duke and North Carolina are at in Basketball. Texas, Miami, Arizona State, Florida State, Southern Cal, Oklahoma State, Cal State Fullerton, LSU ... those teams are your traditional powerhouses that you expect to be in year in and year out. South Carolina had a great decade in the late 70s-early 80s and then under Coach Tanner.
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:21 PM   #52
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Not sure what you have been reading, but fans saying that we should MAKE the playoffs isn't being in denial. The fact is that we have always, even in the down Holbrook years, recruited at a pretty good level. Simply MAKING the postseason really doesn't take that much and a program that recruits at the level that we do (even in our down years) is still better than most.

Let's also be realistic here. The new coach doesn't have to work a season one miracle for us to simply MAKE the playoffs. Last season, considered our darkest days by some of the new baseball fans here, we went 35-25. We weren't but 4 or 5 wins away from MAKING the postseason last year.

So why wouldn't a new head coach, with added fire, added motivaton and all the other intagibles mentioned in this thread, be able to do a few games better than what we had last season?

Starting weekend pitchers could be an issue, but you would think we, like everyone else, could find a few quality guys to throw out there. Quality depth could be an issue that takes a few seasons to accomplish, but instead of just throwing out comments about the elite teams we play, look at the schedule as a whole. Win a high percentage of the OOC games, go .500 in the SEC (and there are enough bad teams to offset the elite teams) and you should be able to get at or near that 40 win plateu that generally gets you in the playoffs.

Now, if someone says we should win the SEC or host, then I'm on board with you that their expectations are too high.


Why is it that the football fans can expect/demand a coach come in and in their first year go from 3 wins to making a bowl, but it's crazy for our baseball fans to expect us to go from just missing the playoffs to making them? Sorry, I don't buy it.
I agree, but you don't know what the recruitment talent is going to translate to. Was it completely coaching that resulted in poor play, or was the talent level also to blame? It could have been the case of picking up some recruits that blossomed early in HS.

And I also agree 100% that simply making the playoffs shouldn't be that much of a challenge. What I'm saying is, the comments "If we don't make it Kingston is a bust and we should have never fired Holbrook" are just dumb.

Football and Baseball are completely different games. What Muschamp did is nothing short of amazing. We really don't know much about Kingston. If you would read my post again ... I feel like we will and SHOULD make the post season. What my concerns are, are the fans that are saying it's "make it or bust" when we don't really know what has been left behind by Holbrook. When Spurrier stepped down and we were losing more games than we were used to but we were still close. Did we believe we were a dumpster fire and would flop against Citadel? When he left and we won the very next week, did we think that would be the last one of the season?

From what I have seen and read on Kingston, I think he's going to be a great coach for the Yardcocks, and I really think he'll get us back to Omaha in the future. All I'm saying is fans need to give him at least 1 damn year to get everything completely in place before calling for his head on a foul poll.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:34 PM   #53
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No, it isn't. We want to think that, but we're no where close to the level in Baseball that Duke and North Carolina are at in Basketball. Texas, Miami, Arizona State, Florida State, Southern Cal, Oklahoma State, Cal State Fullerton, LSU ... those teams are your traditional powerhouses that you expect to be in year in and year out. South Carolina had a great decade in the late 70s-early 80s and then under Coach Tanner.
Sorry Cack but i respectfully disagree. Gamecock baseball is talked about nationwide in the same manner as those other teams plus fsu has never won the NC.
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Old 01-23-2018, 03:37 PM   #54
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Sorry Cack but i respectfully disagree. Gamecock baseball is talked about nationwide in the same manner as those other teams plus fsu has never won the NC.
I am not selling our program short. I understand and agree, we have an elite program. All I am simply saying is that we don't know if the roster has enough to come our and say "Kingston puts us in the post season this year or he's a bust hire."
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Old 01-23-2018, 05:01 PM   #55
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No, it isn't. We want to think that, but we're no where close to the level in Baseball that Duke and North Carolina are at in Basketball. Texas, Miami, Arizona State, Florida State, Southern Cal, Oklahoma State, Cal State Fullerton, LSU ... those teams are your traditional powerhouses that you expect to be in year in and year out. South Carolina had a great decade in the late 70s-early 80s and then under Coach Tanner.
Can't disagree with this more......since 2000, and before Holbrook took over, we've had more success than all of those you've listed minus FSU, Miami, and LSU. The others fall way behind us.

South Carolina was playing for the national championship a year before "The Father of SEC Baseball" coached his very first game as a SEC head coach. And the same year that LSU as a baseball program participated in its very first NCAA postseason. Until LSU lost to UF last season, USC appeared in as many CWS Championship games/series as LSU had.

When Coach McGuire came to USC, UNC only had one championship in MBB, and McGuire got them that one. Duke didn't win their first one until the 90s.

The reason why our FB and MBB programs have wallowed in mediocrity for so long, is because of members of its fanbase, administrators and staff in the athletic departments maintaining thought processes like the one you just displayed here above: that no matter what, regardless of on-field results, we'll never be as good as anyone else, and so we should just sink back down and stay there.

That thought process just makes me sick.....its the definition of a loser's mentality. To have it when you're losing is one thing bad enough. To have it when you've had a run of great success, is almost treason....
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Old 01-23-2018, 05:45 PM   #56
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i believe sc has been to 6 national title games/series' since 1975. two of those were b2b in the 70s, 1 in the early 2000s and 3 b2b in the last decade with 2 nattys.. thats outstanding. been to the cws probably 8-10 times. sc is a program that nobody is surprised makes to the cws.

Not many teams can say that..we are an ELITE program.
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Old 01-23-2018, 05:58 PM   #57
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i believe sc has been to 6 national title games/series' since 1975. two of those were b2b in the 70s, 1 in the early 2000s and 3 b2b in the last decade with 2 nattys.. thats outstanding. been to the cws probably 8-10 times. sc is a program that nobody is surprised makes to the cws.

Not many teams can say that..we are an ELITE program.
1975 and 1977.
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:41 PM   #58
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No, it isn't. We want to think that, but we're no where close to the level in Baseball that Duke and North Carolina are at in Basketball. Texas, Miami, Arizona State, Florida State, Southern Cal, Oklahoma State, Cal State Fullerton, LSU ... those teams are your traditional powerhouses that you expect to be in year in and year out. South Carolina had a great decade in the late 70s-early 80s and then under Coach Tanner.
Only 8 teams have more CWS Titles than we do.

Minnesota has 3. Their most recent was 1964......

Cal State Fullerton has 4. Basically, I consider us and them on the same level alltime. Their first title was in 1979. We played in the Championship game twice in the 70's and gbh, had it been a 3 game series, we likely would have more titles. Either way, they have 4 titles spread over a 40 year period.

Arizona has 4. Like CSF, their first came in the 70's and they have 4 titls over a 40 year period. Again, I consider us on the same level with them.

Miami has 4. Theirs came between 1982 and 2001.... so they had a nice 20 year stretch.

Arizona State has 5. 1959 to 1981 they won at least 4 of the 5. I'm not sure when their 5th was as the site doesn't list it. So 4 titles were in a 22 year stretch

Texas has 6. 2 of those came in 1949 and 1950. 2 more between 1975 and 1983. Then their most recent 2 were in 2002 and 2005.

LSU has 6. 5 of those 6 were in one decade, (91-00). Then they won another one in 2009. So all 6 were in 2 decades.

SoCal has the most by far with 12. Their 12 are between 1948 and 1998. They are the baseball version of Bama football with the exception that they have sort of fallen by the wayside the past few decades instead of continuing their dominance.

I said all of that to say this, IMO the teams that are the blue bloods in college baseball, with the exception of SoCal, all did it basically in 1 or 2 decades. The same can be said about USC as far as when we were in the thick of the National Championship race.

I think it is extremely accurate to say that we are, in fact, a blueblood in college baseball. From National Titles won, to national Titles played for, to CWS appearances to having a first rate ballpark, USC is on par with every single one of those other teams.

Just my 2 cents.


BTW, Oklahoma State that you listed has only 1 National Title and it is from way back in 1959. Maybe you meant Oregon State that won it back to back in 06 and 07, for their only two titles?

http://www.ncaa.com/news/baseball/ar...-championships

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Old 01-23-2018, 06:49 PM   #59
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Default Re: Perfect Game 2018 Preseason Rankings

Won the CWS Title : 2010, 2011

Played for the Title: 1975, 1977, 2002, 2010, 2011 and 2012

Made it to Omaha: 11 CWS appearances...... 1975, 1977, 1981, 1982, 1985, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2010, 2011, 2012

People talk about Omaha being our second, home, but the impressive part to me is that in a mere 11 appearances (1 less than Clemson's 12), we have played in the title game/series 6 times. Going all the way to the title game/series 66% of the time is pretty amazing against that caliber of competition.

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Old 01-23-2018, 07:03 PM   #60
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I agree, but you don't know what the recruitment talent is going to translate to. Was it completely coaching that resulted in poor play, or was the talent level also to blame? It could have been the case of picking up some recruits that blossomed early in HS.

And I also agree 100% that simply making the playoffs shouldn't be that much of a challenge. What I'm saying is, the comments "If we don't make it Kingston is a bust and we should have never fired Holbrook" are just dumb.

Football and Baseball are completely different games. What Muschamp did is nothing short of amazing. We really don't know much about Kingston. If you would read my post again ... I feel like we will and SHOULD make the post season. What my concerns are, are the fans that are saying it's "make it or bust" when we don't really know what has been left behind by Holbrook. When Spurrier stepped down and we were losing more games than we were used to but we were still close. Did we believe we were a dumpster fire and would flop against Citadel? When he left and we won the very next week, did we think that would be the last one of the season?

From what I have seen and read on Kingston, I think he's going to be a great coach for the Yardcocks, and I really think he'll get us back to Omaha in the future. All I'm saying is fans need to give him at least 1 damn year to get everything completely in place before calling for his head on a foul poll.
I share your concerns.

We shouldn't miss the postseason, but if we do this first season I'm not putting it ll on Kingston's lap.
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