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Old 02-01-2018, 10:47 AM   #21
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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Originally Posted by usc1 View Post
Difference being we only let the guys who could actually bunt, bunt. Whit Merrifield, Scott Wingo for example.

Holbrook had Pankake and Destino try to bunt.
Oh why not. He'd keep his bat on his shoulder on a 3-2 count with the tying run on 3rd, 2 outs, bottom of the 9th. (yeah...i'm still pissed)
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Old 02-01-2018, 03:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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Difference being we only let the guys who could actually bunt, bunt. Whit Merrifield, Scott Wingo for example.

Holbrook had Pankake and Destino try to bunt.
I think I recall Landon Powell and Yaron Peters with a couple of sac bunt opportunities in the 02 post season. One succesful, one not.
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Old 02-01-2018, 05:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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I think I recall Landon Powell and Yaron Peters with a couple of sac bunt opportunities in the 02 post season. One succesful, one not.
Yeah, people have very select memories.
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Old 02-01-2018, 06:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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I high school I bunted 7 times in a row through two games. I got on base 6 of the 7 times. Just saying if you are good, lay it down. I think the players let it get in their head last year and created that poor bunting circumstance, not Holbrook or the lack of teaching.

I'm glad we have Kingston, he wants players to get on base no matter what. That's what the game is about, creating runners and scoring with decent pitching.
You are talking about bunting for a hit. I am all for bunt hits if the player can bunt well and has the speed to beat out bunts. I am 100% against sac bunts.

You back Holbrook for teaching bunting. If he was such a good teacher why were we so bad in successful bunts?
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Old 02-01-2018, 06:47 PM   #25
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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Yeah, people have very select memories.
Select memories? Are you calling 50% successful sac bunts good? Seems like you are.

You failed to respond on why MBL was at an all time low on sac bunt attempts? If this was a high pct. play this would not have happened.

Why was our batting avg. so low in recent years? When a player is asked to sac bunt rather than trying for a hit or advancing a runner swinging the bat this shows a lack of confidence in the player. And when the player as we often saw is in a 0 - 2 count while trying to bunt, excellent chance he will make an out.

I feel certain our batting avg. will be higher this year and we will score more runs and much of that will be due to Mark showing confidence in the batter by allowing him to swing the bat.
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Old 02-01-2018, 06:49 PM   #26
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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Select memories? Are you calling 50% successful sac bunts good? Seems like you are.

You failed to respond on why MBL was at an all time low on sac bunt attempts? If this was a high pct. play this would not have happened.

Why was our batting avg. so low in recent years? When a player is asked to sac bunt rather than trying for a hit or advancing a runner swinging the bat this shows a lack of confidence in the player. And when the player as we often saw is in a 0 - 2 count while trying to bunt, excellent chance he will make an out.

I feel certain our batting avg. will be higher this year and we will score more runs and much of that will be due to Mark showing confidence in the batter by allowing him to swing the bat.
You guys lose this bunt argument every baseball season. You may as well give it a rest.
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Old 02-02-2018, 08:42 AM   #27
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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You guys lose this bunt argument every baseball season. You may as well give it a rest.
We win the argument every baseball season but get shouted out by the masses of baseball traditionalists.

Sac bunting will always be the same thing - playing to avoid a big inning.

If it does not make sense in pro baseball and they are doing it much less, why do college teams do it so much? Because in college, there are more walks, higher batting averages, more wild pitches, a lot more HBP, and livelier bats. In other words, there is a much higher chance of getting on base if you don't bunt - so there is even less reason to bunt in college.

It is baseball's version of the prevent defense in football. When you do not play to win, and instead play not to lose, you usually lose.

Regardless, Kingston is going to do less sac bunting. And you guys will just have to pout and live with the big innings. I can see it now - we have a great season with a productive offense, and you guys want to run him off because he does not bunt enough. Damn all those runs!!
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Old 02-02-2018, 09:15 AM   #28
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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Select memories? Are you calling 50% successful sac bunts good? Seems like you are.

You failed to respond on why MBL was at an all time low on sac bunt attempts? If this was a high pct. play this would not have happened.

Why was our batting avg. so low in recent years? When a player is asked to sac bunt rather than trying for a hit or advancing a runner swinging the bat this shows a lack of confidence in the player. And when the player as we often saw is in a 0 - 2 count while trying to bunt, excellent chance he will make an out.

I feel certain our batting avg. will be higher this year and we will score more runs and much of that will be due to Mark showing confidence in the batter by allowing him to swing the bat.
No, I was saying Ray also had power hitters bunt. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it did not.

By the way, if you check the majority of players averages after going to an 0-2 count, it probably isn't very good. Also define often, I don't remember very many bunt attempts in an 0-2 count.
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:00 PM   #29
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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No, I was saying Ray also had power hitters bunt. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it did not.

By the way, if you check the majority of players averages after going to an 0-2 count, it probably isn't very good. Also define often, I don't remember very many bunt attempts in an 0-2 count.
Read and re-read my comments. Then show me where I said anything about bunt attempts on 0-2 counts. Geez. Don't understand some people's inability to correctly read a simple post.
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:04 PM   #30
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
We win the argument every baseball season but get shouted out by the masses of baseball traditionalists.

Sac bunting will always be the same thing - playing to avoid a big inning.

If it does not make sense in pro baseball and they are doing it much less, why do college teams do it so much? Because in college, there are more walks, higher batting averages, more wild pitches, a lot more HBP, and livelier bats. In other words, there is a much higher chance of getting on base if you don't bunt - so there is even less reason to bunt in college.

It is baseball's version of the prevent defense in football. When you do not play to win, and instead play not to lose, you usually lose.

Regardless, Kingston is going to do less sac bunting. And you guys will just have to pout and live with the big innings. I can see it now - we have a great season with a productive offense, and you guys want to run him off because he does not bunt enough. Damn all those runs!!
Well said, could not have said it better. Too bad some can't read the stats and see this is old school and a low pct, play. You said it well with the sac bunt avoids big innings.
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:07 PM   #31
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
We win the argument every baseball season but get shouted out by the masses of baseball traditionalists.

Sac bunting will always be the same thing - playing to avoid a big inning.

If it does not make sense in pro baseball and they are doing it much less, why do college teams do it so much? Because in college, there are more walks, higher batting averages, more wild pitches, a lot more HBP, and livelier bats. In other words, there is a much higher chance of getting on base if you don't bunt - so there is even less reason to bunt in college.

It is baseball's version of the prevent defense in football. When you do not play to win, and instead play not to lose, you usually lose.

Regardless, Kingston is going to do less sac bunting. And you guys will just have to pout and live with the big innings. I can see it now - we have a great season with a productive offense, and you guys want to run him off because he does not bunt enough. Damn all those runs!!
I really wish that you understood baseball.
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:10 PM   #32
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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Well said, could not have said it better. Too bad some can't read the stats and see this is old school and a low pct, play. You said it well with the sac bunt avoids big innings.
OF course you couldn't have said it any better.... his post is dead wrong and full of inaccuracies.

Every season we have this debate and finally those that understand baseball just stop replying and let you guys continue talking to yourselves because we realize that you will never get it.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:54 PM   #33
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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OF course you couldn't have said it any better.... his post is dead wrong and full of inaccuracies.

Every season we have this debate and finally those that understand baseball just stop replying and let you guys continue talking to yourselves because we realize that you will never get it.
OK. You just admitted you don't know baseball because you keep replying. The one thing you refuse to reply to is why has MLB gone to all time lows on the sac bunt if this is such a good high percentage play. The MLB sac bunt totals would be even much lower if the NL had the DH. I feel sad for you to keep up this argument when the stats clearly tell you are wrong, but as you just admitted you don't understand baseball.
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:05 PM   #34
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

Alright give it a rest. Everybody knows where everybody stands on the bunting issue. At this point it is overkill on both sides of the argument. You are not going to change other people's minds because every argument over the last couple of years has been countered by an equal argument. If you want to continue-create a bunting thread and leave it there. Gamethreads and season threads do no need to devolve into this again.
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:11 PM   #35
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

The only real change I would like to see this season is for the HC to get more involved in the game rather than sitting in the dugout like a lump. I think the team feeds off the energy of the staff as well as the crowd.
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:13 PM   #36
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

I am an "old time traditionalist" that played ball many many years ago. I see how the sac bunt usage has changed. I agree that Holbrook used the bunt too much. It still has a place to be used, but the strategy has changed. The only places I would use the bunt is if you have the lead player on first and your #9 hitter (batting ave of under 200) up. The other would be runners on 1st and 2nd with the # 9 hitter up.In the second example,if successful, they would walk the next batter and you would have the top of your order up with the basses loaded and 1 out.

But, I think that Kingston has the best data available to make the best decision. So, let the games begin and GO COCKS.
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:26 PM   #37
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

When you have great pitching and a lock down closer late in tight games bunts are a good strategy with runners on because they put a lot of pressure on the opposing team. They have to make a play because a run might be the difference in the game. Especially if you have good fundamental bunters.
But when your pitchers either throw balls or extra base hits, and your closers give up game winning dingers, trying to bunt to hide a glaring hitting deficiency is not a good idea.
The bottom line is that Holbrook started with some really good talent and just plain failed to develop it. Most any coaching philosophy will be successful if you get good players and coach them to be fundamentally sound and play up to their potential. Tanner did it. Holbrook didn't. Let's hope Kingston does.
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:29 AM   #38
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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Alright give it a rest. Everybody knows where everybody stands on the bunting issue. At this point it is overkill on both sides of the argument. You are not going to change other people's minds because every argument over the last couple of years has been countered by an equal argument. If you want to continue-create a bunting thread and leave it there. Gamethreads and season threads do no need to devolve into this again.
Well said. Game threads sucked last season because the majority of them became nothing more than bunting arguments. No one wants to search through pages of back and forth to find updates on the game.
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:04 PM   #39
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

Hate to break it to some of you, but I saw on the baseball team’s Instagram page that they were doing bunting drills. Feel free to share your disappointment.
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:03 AM   #40
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Default Re: New Coach, Changes Being Made

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Hate to break it to some of you, but I saw on the baseball teamís Instagram page that they were doing bunting drills. Feel free to share your disappointment.
No one has a problem with the team practicing them. It's the 40 pages of arguments back and forth, ad nauseum, in the game threads that we're sick and tired of. It's the same crap over and over each game. As mentioned, start a bunting post and argue there.
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