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Old 03-06-2017, 11:41 AM   #1
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Default Bunting, Pitching, Defense

If you are going to be a team built around pitching and defense, then you better be able to bunt. The Gamecocks inability to bunt runners over cost them Game 2 and Game 3. Thats hard to watch. The great Gamecock teams were fundamentally sound and could move runners over. The Holbrook teams are not.
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Old 03-06-2017, 02:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

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If you are going to be a team built around pitching and defense, then you better be able to bunt. The Gamecocks inability to bunt runners over cost them Game 2 and Game 3. Thats hard to watch. The great Gamecock teams were fundamentally sound and could move runners over. The Holbrook teams are not.
I agree. In my opinion, it doesn't necessarily fall all on Holbrook. There is absolutely no excuse, as a D1 college baseball player, to not be able to bunt. I am sure that they bunt almost every day. To get into a game and choke time after time is inexcusable.

Bottom 9, no outs, runners on 1st and 2nd, and we cant get a damn bunt down. That's elementary stuff there folks. If we cant execute a sac bunt, it will cost us several runs and/or games.
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Old 03-06-2017, 02:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

I agree for the most part. To play at a program like ours, and not be able to drop a bunt is inexcusable.

I just don't know if I can put that on Holbrook.
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

I put it on any coach that routinely asks their players to bunt.

Bunting is bad, m'kay.
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

how much time do we practice bunting?our players technique is not sound and too many times they try to get a hit instead of moving the runner over--i think coaching hitting and bunting can the greatly improved.
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

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I agree for the most part. To play at a program like ours, and not be able to drop a bunt is inexcusable.

I just don't know if I can put that on Holbrook.
I'm not a big baseball fan, so really don't have a dog in the hunt, but I find this statement a bit funny because I see it a lot.

How would you judge the success or failure of a coach? If not their players ability to perform basic functions. Just wins? The process people? A coach who really loves their university?
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:16 PM   #7
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

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I'm not a big baseball fan, so really don't have a dog in the hunt, but I find this statement a bit funny because I see it a lot.

How would you judge the success or failure of a coach? If not their players ability to perform basic functions. Just wins? The process people? A coach who really loves their university?
I feel like bunting is one of those things that you were either taught how to do at a young age or not. It's hard to get a bunch of 20-year olds excited about dropping a bunt. If they haven't been taught how to do it properly before, it's going to take a lot of work.

If we are being totally honest, the kids who end up playing at programs like ours are likely the kids who were dominating at the high school level, so I'm sure not many coaches were having them bunt in games.
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

The coach can't be blamed because the kids can't bunt.

Wut?
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

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The coach can't be blamed because the kids can't bunt.

Wut?
Oh the coach can definitely be blamed. I just think there is a tendency in youth/HS baseball to allow the better players to just swing away without teaching them the fundamentals of the game, like bunting. I highly doubt there are kids in our program who have been asked to bunt on a regular basis.
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Old 03-06-2017, 04:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

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Originally Posted by MjGCock View Post
I put it on any coach that routinely asks their players to bunt.

Bunting is bad, m'kay.
Thank you sir. Bunting for a base hit - using the element of surprise - is a good thing. Bunting for a sacrifice makes sense very seldom and is a big reason for our lack of offense. Taking the bat out of someone's hands and giving the other team an out is, in a word, dumb. It is essentially playing to avoid a big inning.

If you read the posts, everyone is giving another good reason for not bunting - we aren't good at it.

And here is the thing - if you score .2 more runs when you don't bunt IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES - it sure as hell makes not sense in college. In the pros, they are better at bunting, batting averages are lower, pitchers have better control (fewer walks, fewer HBPs, fewer wild pitches), fielders are better, etc. I would guess that the run differential would be more like .3 - .4 runs more in college.

So why waste time practicing bunting if it makes no sense anyway? Couldn't we spend the time on practicing our hitting instead? Lord knows we need to improve the hitting.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

I'm sure that bunting is practiced daily; both in the cage and on the field. It's almost always your first few pitches during any BP session, lay down a bunt. The coaches cant be blamed that we don't execute.

Example: You can hit a kid 1,000 groundballs with the fungo; he can field 998 of those cleanly; then he goes into a game and makes 3 errors on groundballs. Whose fault is that? The player, not the coach.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:17 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

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Originally Posted by cockyben View Post
how much time do we practice bunting?our players technique is not sound and too many times they try to get a hit instead of moving the runner over--i think coaching hitting and bunting can the greatly improved.


It appears the only things we practice consistently are boneheaded base running and asinine pitch calls. Everything else is a free for all. The "Bad News Bears" come to mind.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

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I'm sure that bunting is practiced daily; both in the cage and on the field. It's almost always your first few pitches during any BP session, lay down a bunt.
Let's call an ace an ace and a spade a spade. Bunting in the batting cage is absolutely nothing like bunting at the end of a game against your rival.

Im not making excuses at all for the players so dont pounce on me. I am just stating a fact.

Bunting in BP is just the robotic motions you go through to get to the actual hitting part. I have no clue to the extent The coaches go to in order to teach these guys how to bunt in critical situations. I personally dont think the coaches have enough time in the day to actually practice something like bunting. It sorta is what it is.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

Holbrook's teams just don't seem to have an identity
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:40 PM   #15
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
Thank you sir. Bunting for a base hit - using the element of surprise - is a good thing. Bunting for a sacrifice makes sense very seldom and is a big reason for our lack of offense. Taking the bat out of someone's hands and giving the other team an out is, in a word, dumb. It is essentially playing to avoid a big inning.

If you read the posts, everyone is giving another good reason for not bunting - we aren't good at it.

And here is the thing - if you score .2 more runs when you don't bunt IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES - it sure as hell makes not sense in college. In the pros, they are better at bunting, batting averages are lower, pitchers have better control (fewer walks, fewer HBPs, fewer wild pitches), fielders are better, etc. I would guess that the run differential would be more like .3 - .4 runs more in college.

So why waste time practicing bunting if it makes no sense anyway? Couldn't we spend the time on practicing our hitting instead? Lord knows we need to improve the hitting.
But the whole premise of your post is that we needed a lot of runs. If we needed a lot of runs, of course we wouldn't be bunting. That simply wasn't the case though. We only needed ONE run. Having a runner on third with one out would have increased our chances to score. In fact, the runner would have scored (had he been on third) with Jonah Bride's at-bat. It would have been over, and nobody would be having a panic attack today.

It's really easy to look back and say we aren't good at bunting, but here's the thing - we aren't good at hitting either. I know Destino is our #4 batter, but dropping a bunt should be automatic. A base hit is approximately a 25% chance. I'll take the bunt every time.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:46 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
Thank you sir. Bunting for a base hit - using the element of surprise - is a good thing. Bunting for a sacrifice makes sense very seldom and is a big reason for our lack of offense. Taking the bat out of someone's hands and giving the other team an out is, in a word, dumb. It is essentially playing to avoid a big inning.

If you read the posts, everyone is giving another good reason for not bunting - we aren't good at it.

And here is the thing - if you score .2 more runs when you don't bunt IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES - it sure as hell makes not sense in college. In the pros, they are better at bunting, batting averages are lower, pitchers have better control (fewer walks, fewer HBPs, fewer wild pitches), fielders are better, etc. I would guess that the run differential would be more like .3 - .4 runs more in college.

So why waste time practicing bunting if it makes no sense anyway? Couldn't we spend the time on practicing our hitting instead? Lord knows we need to improve the hitting.
See here is the thing, Hitters in the Majors are a lot better, Fielders are better, Runners are not always as agile. Bunting makes less sense


In College, these kids dont hit as well, and the fielders arent as good. sometimes just putting a ball in play is enough to get on base. 3rd base is a hard spot to play, the top few play in the pros, many more than the top few play college ball. put presser on.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

I can't believe that any knowledgeable baseball fan would try to say that bunting isn't a very important part of the game.

Tell ya what, watch Tim Corbin and Vandy that bunt and take a lot of risks pressing the issues on the basepads. He is one of the best coaches in college baseball and I assure you they throw down a lot of bunts and are very solid at "small ball".
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:59 PM   #18
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

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See here is the thing, Hitters in the Majors are a lot better, Fielders are better, Runners are not always as agile. Bunting makes less sense


In College, these kids dont hit as well, and the fielders arent as good. sometimes just putting a ball in play is enough to get on base. 3rd base is a hard spot to play, the top few play in the pros, many more than the top few play college ball. put presser on.
Not only that, but we weren't out there that inning to get a lot of runs. We were out there to get one.
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:12 PM   #19
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
Thank you sir. Bunting for a base hit - using the element of surprise - is a good thing. Bunting for a sacrifice makes sense very seldom and is a big reason for our lack of offense. Taking the bat out of someone's hands and giving the other team an out is, in a word, dumb. It is essentially playing to avoid a big inning.

If you read the posts, everyone is giving another good reason for not bunting - we aren't good at it.

And here is the thing - if you score .2 more runs when you don't bunt IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES - it sure as hell makes not sense in college. In the pros, they are better at bunting, batting averages are lower, pitchers have better control (fewer walks, fewer HBPs, fewer wild pitches), fielders are better, etc. I would guess that the run differential would be more like .3 - .4 runs more in college.
Where is the guy that always stated bunting is a waste of time at? The team is finally doing what he wants with no bunting, and he isn't here to cheer them on.


Edit there he is.

It most likely cost us this game.

This guys post says it all, you just needed 1.

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Not only that, but we weren't out there that inning to get a lot of runs. We were out there to get one.
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:16 PM   #20
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Default Re: Bunting, Pitching, Defense

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But the whole premise of your post is that we needed a lot of runs. If we needed a lot of runs, of course we wouldn't be bunting. That simply wasn't the case though. We only needed ONE run. Having a runner on third with one out would have increased our chances to score. In fact, the runner would have scored (had he been on third) with Jonah Bride's at-bat. It would have been over, and nobody would be having a panic attack today.

It's really easy to look back and say we aren't good at bunting, but here's the thing - we aren't good at hitting either. I know Destino is our #4 batter, but dropping a bunt should be automatic. A base hit is approximately a 25% chance. I'll take the bunt every time.
Destino bats well over .300, right? So if you don't give up the automatic out via bunt, the chance of a base hit is much higher than 25% - not to mention walks, HBP, errors. Destino's OBP is probably closer to .400. And there is a strong chance that the runner advances to 3rd anyway - via wild pitch, grounder to the right side, deep fly ball, error. The chance of something good happening if we hit away is more like 50% - and we could end the game with a clean hit - about a 1/3 chance.

With a bunt, it is an out 99% of the time - if successful. And there are other bad things that can happen - pop up outs, fouled 3rd strikes, bad bunts that get the runner thrown out at 3rd, missed bunts that put the batter in the hole so that he has to swing away down in the count, etc. And there is no pressure on the pitcher - he is better off not throwing strikes, because that just makes the bunt harder to put down.

If you advance the runner to 3rd with one out, you still only have one batter that can get the runner home without a hit. So you are giving up an out - and one of three chances to get a base hit - for the small advantage of being able to get the runner home from 3rd with the second out.

And here is the real problem - with two bases open and with the other runners being meaningless, you can pitch carefully to the next batter(s). A walk sets up an inning ending DP, so the next hitter seldom gets something good to hit, and often makes an out by swinging at bad pitches. And with two outs - or one out and a DP situation - the next batter's sphincter is so tight that he usually screws up. And there is a base open, so the pitcher still does not have to give in.

A lose-lose situation and a bad percentage move.
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