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Old 07-11-2018, 11:35 AM   #161
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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That is indeed a primary issue.. Coach Frank ignores it and continues to behave like a rabid grizzly on the sidelines.. Our fans excuse it because it's our coach!!! I have no doubt he would recruit a lot better if he cleaned that mess up
This has been discussed ad nauseum. I don't think that it is part of the recruiting problem. Every coach talks like this but Frank is also animated on the sidelines and has those facial expressions. The camera is also on Frank because of the suspension a few years ago. Other coaches do it without changing their expressions. His coaching technique works and I don't want him to change. If it offends some people (who want to complain to RT) then I suggest that they don't sit behind the bench.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:03 PM   #162
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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That is indeed a primary issue.. Coach Frank ignores it and continues to behave like a rabid grizzly on the sidelines.. Our fans excuse it because it's our coach!!! I have no doubt he would recruit a lot better if he cleaned that mess up
It isn't a "mess". Maybe when Frank is gone, USC can find another Mister Rogers to be the coach. smh.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:24 PM   #163
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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It isn't a "mess". Maybe when Frank is gone, USC can find another Mister Rogers to be the coach. smh.
I rest my case!! Keep your head in the sand!!! The grandeur of the final four run will wear off soon enough...
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:35 PM   #164
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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IMO a NCAA Bid must happen this year or that F4 run is really going to look like lightning in a bottle and to be honest I think we are going to struggle for that to happen. Maybe I am wrong but I just don't look at our Roster at the moment and see a NCAA Tourney Team. The SEC is brutal and we likely have one of the least talented Teams in the League. FM definitely needs to improve his recruiting regardless where he is getting his players.
The Final Four run might be lightning in a bottle but Frank has gotten us close to being a perennial NCAA tournament team. Like I said, we should have been in two years ago, we were in (in a big way) a year ago, and last year we were just a talented PG away. The PG issue was not a lack of recruiting or development - it was leaving early, poor personal decisions, and injury - all at one position and in one year.

With the talent returning and PG upgrades, I fully expect to be in this year. And I do not think it will be borderline like two years ago.

BringBackGarcia, no one is saying that we do not need to recruit locally. And I think that Frank is busting his hump to do that. All we are saying is that Frank will be more successful with the in-state talent when we become that perennial NCAA tournament team, and some of us believe that will happen without getting the local players first.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:38 PM   #165
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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I rest my case!! Keep your head in the sand!!! The grandeur of the final four run will wear off soon enough...
My head is not in the sand. I'm just not offended by Frank Martin. If he lives, Martin is going to be the coach for several more years. Do you think you can survive?
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:42 PM   #166
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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The Final Four run might be lightning in a bottle but Frank has gotten us close to being a perennial NCAA tournament team. Like I said, we should have been in two years ago, we were in (in a big way) a year ago, and last year we were just a talented PG away. The PG issue was not a lack of recruiting or development - it was leaving early, poor personal decisions, and injury - all at one position and in one year.

With the talent returning and PG upgrades, I fully expect to be in this year. And I do not think it will be borderline like two years ago.

BringBackGarcia, no one is saying that we do not need to recruit locally. And I think that Frank is busting his hump to do that. All we are saying is that Frank will be more successful with the in-state talent when we become that perennial NCAA tournament team, and some of us believe that will happen without getting the local players first.
I'm not convinced that winning will make the locals want to come to USC. I'm not convinced that that is why they are turning down offers from USC.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:02 PM   #167
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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The Final Four run might be lightning in a bottle but Frank has gotten us close to being a perennial NCAA tournament team. Like I said, we should have been in two years ago, we were in (in a big way) a year ago, and last year we were just a talented PG away. The PG issue was not a lack of recruiting or development - it was leaving early, poor personal decisions, and injury - all at one position and in one year.

With the talent returning and PG upgrades, I fully expect to be in this year. And I do not think it will be borderline like two years ago.

BringBackGarcia, no one is saying that we do not need to recruit locally. And I think that Frank is busting his hump to do that. All we are saying is that Frank will be more successful with the in-state talent when we become that perennial NCAA tournament team, and some of us believe that will happen without getting the local players first.


My point was, though, that the only reason we ever made the NCAA and were on the bubble was because of Sin and PJ. Last year we were close, but don't forget that we didn't even make the NIT.


And please, someone just say what they mean. Are you guys insinuating that every local AAU coach and every South Carolina "advisor" is on the take from other schools? Not to be a negative dude, but I don't think it should be overlooked that 1. One of our former coaches is indicted in a pay scandal and 2. Those same players aforementioned were his recruits.


My opinion: If the NCAA doesn't change things after this FBI sting, if we aren't already (which I doubt that we are not--I just don't think we're very good at it), we need to start playing the pay game a little better. You can play by the rules, which is great, but when everyone else isn't, and those in power obviously don't care, it's time to either get on board or consider changing jobs. It's like taking a job as a bartender at a strip club and complaining about the drunks and naked chicks. Frank knew and knows very well what kind of racket the college basketball scene is.
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:53 PM   #168
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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My point was, though, that the only reason we ever made the NCAA and were on the bubble was because of Sin and PJ. Last year we were close, but don't forget that we didn't even make the NIT.


And please, someone just say what they mean. Are you guys insinuating that every local AAU coach and every South Carolina "advisor" is on the take from other schools? Not to be a negative dude, but I don't think it should be overlooked that 1. One of our former coaches is indicted in a pay scandal and 2. Those same players aforementioned were his recruits.


My opinion: If the NCAA doesn't change things after this FBI sting, if we aren't already (which I doubt that we are not--I just don't think we're very good at it), we need to start playing the pay game a little better. You can play by the rules, which is great, but when everyone else isn't, and those in power obviously don't care, it's time to either get on board or consider changing jobs. It's like taking a job as a bartender at a strip club and complaining about the drunks and naked chicks. Frank knew and knows very well what kind of racket the college basketball scene is.
I donít think anyone pays our basketball players. We have to pull guys who have come to the US from foreign countries. All Frank ever does is preach doing the right thing. I believe boosters pay for players and I donít believe our big time boosters care about Basketball. Football maybe a different story idk anything but I do know weíre all tired of getting whipped by Clemson.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:00 PM   #169
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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My head is not in the sand. I'm just not offended by Frank Martin. If he lives, Martin is going to be the coach for several more years. Do you think you can survive?
I don't want Frank Martin fired. I want him to get off his ass and recruit!! The excuses are getting old!!
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:02 PM   #170
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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I don't want Frank Martin fired. I want him to get off his ass and recruit!! The excuses are getting old!!
So if this 2018 class that's incoming works out even though it's not highly rated will you get off his back? Or do you require high recruiting rankings?
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:19 PM   #171
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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I don't want Frank Martin fired. I want him to get off his ass and recruit!! The excuses are getting old!!
I pay pretty close attention to what Frank says in interviews, and I don't recall him making excuses for not getting players he offers.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:40 PM   #172
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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I actually feel like he's been much better after the 'Answer the effing question" episode.


What I think USC and he do a bad job with is media presence. His interviews during the Final Four run were great. I caught him on DP show and he's fantastic. He needs to be out there, more interviews, and more opportunities to show his personality.
USC can't even successfully produce a media guide or advertise a press conference. Or coordinate hanging a Final Four banner.

It is what it is.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:46 PM   #173
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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My point was, though, that the only reason we ever made the NCAA and were on the bubble was because of Sin and PJ. Last year we were close, but don't forget that we didn't even make the NIT.


And please, someone just say what they mean. Are you guys insinuating that every local AAU coach and every South Carolina "advisor" is on the take from other schools? Not to be a negative dude, but I don't think it should be overlooked that 1. One of our former coaches is indicted in a pay scandal and 2. Those same players aforementioned were his recruits.


My opinion: If the NCAA doesn't change things after this FBI sting, if we aren't already (which I doubt that we are not--I just don't think we're very good at it), we need to start playing the pay game a little better. You can play by the rules, which is great, but when everyone else isn't, and those in power obviously don't care, it's time to either get on board or consider changing jobs. It's like taking a job as a bartender at a strip club and complaining about the drunks and naked chicks. Frank knew and knows very well what kind of racket the college basketball scene is.
The star of the team that should have made the NCAAs two years ago - the All-SEC player - was Carrera. He is about as far from being local as you can get, same with the other two starters on the front line.

Last year, the star of the team was Silva - again, about as far from local as you can get. He was joined on the front line by an Estonian, and the next best player was a Freshman from New Jersey. And the talent level was good enough to make the NCAA tournament - if we had even average PG play.

So we are very capable of making the NCAA without local players - and will do it this year.

I don't think anyone is insinuating that players or coaches are getting paid off. They could be, but none of us knows that. I just think that the AAU coaches believe that it will enhance the player's status - and therefore the coach's status, and their AAU team - if they go to one of the NBA factories, like UK or Duke. So they push them that way.

Basketball players like to get away from home more than football players, and are proven to be more likely to transfer if they don't like their first (or second or third) stop. That helps us with out of state recruiting and bringing in transfers, but hurts us with the local talent and keeping our recruit for four years. Those are facts in the current basketball climate, and it is true at all schools.

But some on this board act like it is only happening at South Carolina and are quick to blame Martin. Which is wrong.
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:53 PM   #174
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

I still feel like this conversation is pertinent to Gary so will keep it up.


One, pointing out a bunch of times where we could've made a tournament with such and such players doesn't help your argument. The fact is, we didn't. Carrera was a lot of fun to watch, and Silva is at times, but I think of both of them it's asking too much to carry a team like Sin and PJ. Hell, even when Sin was out, PJ disappeared. To me, he's made Frank here. Without that one dude, I'm not even sure Frank would still be employed here.


And sure, Zion wants to go to Duke, I get it. But Ole Miss? Alabama? Come on. I'm not saying boosters are paying players, but I don't think there's anyone out there who feels like this is all on the up and up--and more so than thinking Gary will get better exposure at Alabama.


And it is happening at other places, but I don't care about that. I care about Frank figuring out a way to stop the bleeding of instate kids.


Finally, as far as this incoming class, if they're superstars I'll be more than happy to be wrong, but at this point I would consider it successful if more than one of them is able to actually contribute next season and maybe if 2/3rds of the class is good enough not to transfer out after two seasons.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:38 PM   #175
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

Its a matter of opinion. Some have the opinion that getting players from within the state is mandatory. Others, like me, only want good players who have the heart of a champion and it does not matter if they come from South Carolina. I don't think a valid argument can be made that in order to have a good program, you must get players from SC. I doubt anyone is going to change their opinion on this. The "must get in-state players" guys are probably always going to believe they are right. But, that's ok. Frank will never please everyone. The only thing that really bothers me is Frank and his staff spend a lot of time, effort, and money trying to recruit in-state players that they probably are never going to get. If they could find out early that all of their efforts are wasted, like they were with Z. Williamson, then they could direct their efforts toward players they actually have a chance to get.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:06 PM   #176
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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Give me players with talent AND the heart and character of those guys and we will win. I'm not going to say I don't care whether they played high school ball in SC or not - because I do. I loved watching Alex English, Barry Manning, McKie, Jo Jo English, Joe Rhett and the rest play here.

But the bottom line is you have to start somewhere and you have to win.

You must have missed the Horn years? You must have also missed the last three seasons. If you had been here at the end of Horn's tenure you would know Frank took over a horrible program. If you had been here the last three years you would have seen Frank did inherit a mess, did get started and has made tremendous progress. I believe he did rack up some big wins in this timeframe also.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:13 PM   #177
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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I don't want Frank Martin fired. I want him to get off his ass and recruit!! The excuses are getting old!!

Another uninformed poster for sure. What excuses are you talking about? As for recruiting Frank and his staff work very hard. You probably also think we made a mistake when we fired Horn and hired Frank. How can you be so blind as to not see the progress this program has made since Frank came here? Did we not tie a school record for most wins in a season? Did we not break a school record for most wins in USC history? It is amazing Frank did all this without being able to recruit.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:21 PM   #178
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

The in state recruiting has been discussed in this thread and many other threads numerous times. I have stated my opinion on this as have many of you. Just how important is in state recruiting compared to out of state recruiting. As mentioned earlier in this thread our best series of seasons was when McGuire was here and most of his success came from players in the NYC and NJ areas.

Let's take a look at three of the nation's most successful basketball schools: Duke, Kentucky and Kansas. Do any of these schools base their success on in state recruiting? Absolutely not. I am not concerned if our players come from SC, another state or another country. I just want the best available players who want to play for USC.

Why get upset when players from SC want to go out of state? If they don't want to play here they would harm our program much more than help it. Get players who want to be here regardless of location, who want to be coached hard to make them better and who believe in playing good, disciplined team basketball.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:24 PM   #179
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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Damn ... just damn!!

Glad Sin is speaking up at least. Others need to speak up too.

This anti-SC sentiment won't go away easily, but it can be minimized and marginalized by better press and by winning.
The guy is a Clemson fan; if people are listening to a Clemson fan badmouth Carolina, they aren't mentally tough enough to play for Frank. Period.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:25 PM   #180
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Default Re: 2019 - SF - Juwan Gary (MBB)

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Originally Posted by thumpin big View Post
It isn't a "mess". Maybe when Frank is gone, USC can find another Mister Rogers to be the coach. smh.
We tried that and Dave Odom never won an NCAAT game. I do appreciate the 2 NIT Championships, though.
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