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Old 01-09-2017, 02:26 PM   #61
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Default Re: Facilities War

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Just a quick comparison of donor levels shows that they are about the same, with Carolina's being slightly more expensive, I am sure that is offset by higher membership numbers for Clemson. I was supprised to see that you have to be giving at $400 or more to qualify for area parking and $2400 to get reserved parking, but I am not sure if that includes the cost to park.

I would assume that GCC membership is currently down, at least compared to IPTAY membership, but with a few winning seasons those numbers will change. The addition of luxury suits should draw in more money as well. Let's face it, nobody wants to write a losing program a million dollar check, so winning more will also result in more private donations by wealthy donors.

I don't know how they are drumming up the financial support, but they are. There is not much to do in tater town, so perhaps wealthy people have less options for donation so more money goes to the football program?
QFT, bet you Dabo wasn't able to get some of those toys he got, until 2011. He probably got huge checks after CU beat USC in 2014 finally. If 2010 kept happening, I guarantee you USC would be on a 8 peat and another coach would be there right now.
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:44 PM   #62
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Default Re: Facilities War

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Originally Posted by CAC View Post
Uh it is a lie. Where's the taxpayer money or huge debt? They didn't borrowoney from the state. Iptay borrowed from itself with the majority paid in cash. No money was borrowed from the state and he makes up posts so often he came in with a figure out of thin air.
In an earlier discussion, the 5 million taxpayer money was used and was not disputed, so I did not pull it out of thin air. But the actual financing of the Operations Building included 19.5 million in bond issues, which was part of a larger 211 million bond issue that financed a longer list of athletic department projects, including the Littletoilet upgrades. To me, both 19.5 million and 211 million are large figures, but may not be to a man of your tremendous wealth, ClemsonAin'tClassy.

Unless you got a few billion laying around, 19.5 million is huge debt - and that figure is accurate, and not based on whatever propaganda is being spewed on TaterNet.

But the expenditure is worth it - if playing pool and putt-putt distracts the players from ass-grabbing for an hour or two.
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:54 PM   #63
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Default Re: Facilities War

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But the expenditure is worth it - if playing pool and putt-putt distracts the players from ass-grabbing for an hour or two.
You left out the slide....don't forget the slide!

Also, volleyball courts so they can do homoerotic re-creations of this:



Now with more and deeper grundle grabbing!
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:09 PM   #64
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Default Re: Facilities War

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...a program we previously beat 5x. I will always contend that losing to USC was a big driver of what's happening now. They learned from their mistakes.

Turnabout is fair play: They learned from USC about having a stout DL, lots of speed and athleticism on defense, and a faster offense. USC needs to learn about whatever advantages they've created in the past few years, and push ahead.
Let me know if that eases your discomfort watching them play tonight??? LOL
The past (now 3 losses since that last win with several more to come before we rebuild to a level close enough to compete with them) has nothing to do with the direction of the two programs. If the past was relevant, we would still be beating them.
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:14 PM   #65
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Default Re: Facilities War

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I guess it depends on how much debt you think $19.5 million is. Is it a lot? Is it couch cushion money?

Regardless, they incurred debt to build their football ops building. That's a fact.

Maybe if Muschamp adds a McD's play place to our Ops building, people will stop quoting tnet.
I didn't mention anything other than that he lied and made up out of thin air the taxpayers pitching in 5 million. Iptay borrowing from themselves is not taxpayer money. Iptay has zero to do with the state. He does that nonstop and I wish someone other than me would tell him to stop with the make believe
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:40 PM   #66
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Default Re: Facilities War

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I didn't mention anything other than that he lied and made up out of thin air the taxpayers pitching in 5 million. Iptay borrowing from themselves is not taxpayer money. Iptay has zero to do with the state. He does that nonstop and I wish someone other than me would tell him to stop with the make believe
Like making believe you're a Gamecock fan when you're clearly to everyone else not??
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:55 PM   #67
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Default Re: Facilities War

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Facilities help but are not the main reason, IMO. It is more due to recent success, strong recruiters, and working hard on the PR/message. The only real difference between them and us is the Football Ops Center, and we are addressing that.

They have been getting more 5* players than us for 6-7 years but it did not pay off big until Watson came on board. It will be interesting to see if they are truly a elite/national program or if Watson elevated them to that level short-term. Even with their success, they do not have near the talent of other programs - like Alabama and FSU. Watson has been the equalizer.

Yep Clemson has done it the right way, I'm sad to say. When USC was beating them 5 years in a row, they still were having some of the best years of their program history, these two recent seasons notwithstanding. After 2010 they win their first ever ACCCG, and average 10-11 wins from 2011-2013. Mostly before their IPF was started or completed, and before they even came out with their plans for their FB Ops bldg.

Because as they had their success (despite continuing to lose to us) their coaching staff not only continued to recruit their asses off, but they even ramped it up, and used their on-field success (minus how they played against us) to go after even better talent. Swinney hyped and hyped every win into something bigger than it was publicly: playing - and even losing - in the ACCT, beating a middling SEC opponent in a middling bowl game - was declared the same as winning the national championship, etc.....

And our fanbase laughed at him and called him a clown and a fool - and of course, he is - but we couldn't help but give him A+s for effort, and it was while our own staff under Spurrier was sleeping through final exams. Clemson did with their success EXACTLY what I had hoped our own staff would have done with our own 11-win seasons. It's what I had always dreamed we needed to boost our own program over that hump we've been buried under for decades. But when we got that success, Spurrier and his staff just sat down and gave up.

And now I've been going around for quite a while with a nauseous feeling in my stomach. I'm afraid tonight it's going to get worse......


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Old 01-09-2017, 05:59 PM   #68
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Default Re: Facilities War

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I didn't mention anything other than that he lied and made up out of thin air the taxpayers pitching in 5 million. Iptay borrowing from themselves is not taxpayer money. Iptay has zero to do with the state. He does that nonstop and I wish someone other than me would tell him to stop with the make believe
Ah, the spin begins. To build the Ops Center, Clemson had to issue 19.5 million in Athletic Revenue Bonds - basically borrowing against future earnings. And get approval from the state to do it. That is not borrowing from IPTAY, that is issuing bonds and paying interest on the money borrowed. And the record is in the state archives and verifies what was in the Washington Post.

Sorry if the truth strikes a nerve, ClemsonAin'tClassy.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:01 PM   #69
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Default Re: Facilities War

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Yep Clemson has done it the right way, I'm sad to say. When USC was beating them 5 years in a row, they still were having some of the best years of their program history, these two recent seasons notwithstanding. After 2010 they win their first ever ACCCG, and average 10-11 wins from 2011-2013. Mostly before their IPF was started or completed, and before they even came out with their plans for their FB Ops bldg.

Because as they had their success (despite continuing to lose to us) their coaching staff not only continued to recruit their asses off, but they even ramped it up, and used their on-field success (minus how they played against us) to go after even better talent. Swinney hyped and hyped every win into something bigger than it was publicly: playing - and even losing - in the ACCT, beating a middling SEC opponent in a middling bowl game - was declared the same as winning the national championship, etc.....

And our fanbase laughed at him and called him a clown and a fool - and of course, he is - but we couldn't help but give him A+s for effort, and it was while our own staff under Spurrier was sleeping through final exams. Clemson did with their success EXACTLY what I had hoped our own staff would have done with our own 11-win seasons
. It's what I had always dreamed we needed to boost our own program over that hump we've been buried under for decades. But when we got that success, Spurrier and his staff just sat down and gave up.

And now I've been going around for quite a while with a nauseous feeling in my stomach. I'm afraid tonight it's going to get worse......


this this and this ... our fans laughed at dabo while he worked his ass off, made great hires and while SOS played golf and taunted saban on working to hard

(this is not to get in an argument about SOS and what he did or didnt do)
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:08 PM   #70
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Default Re: Facilities War

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Yep Clemson has done it the right way, I'm sad to say. When USC was beating them 5 years in a row, they still were having some of the best years of their program history, these two recent seasons notwithstanding. After 2010 they win their first ever ACCCG, and average 10-11 wins from 2011-2013. Mostly before their IPF was started or completed, and before they even came out with their plans for their FB Ops bldg.

Because as they had their success (despite continuing to lose to us) their coaching staff not only continued to recruit their asses off, but they even ramped it up, and used their on-field success (minus how they played against us) to go after even better talent. Swinney hyped and hyped every win into something bigger than it was publicly: playing - and even losing - in the ACCT, beating a middling SEC opponent in a middling bowl game - was declared the same as winning the national championship, etc.....

And our fanbase laughed at him and called him a clown and a fool - and of course, he is - but we couldn't help but give him A+s for effort, and it was while our own staff under Spurrier was sleeping through final exams. Clemson did with their success EXACTLY what I had hoped our own staff would have done with our own 11-win seasons. It's what I had always dreamed we needed to boost our own program over that hump we've been buried under for decades. But when we got that success, Spurrier and his staff just sat down and gave up.

And now I've been going around for quite a while with a nauseous feeling in my stomach. I'm afraid tonight it's going to get worse......


Now it's our turn to win big with a young hungry HC. In 5 years Dabo will wish he never talked trash about us in those rants to begin with. Champ seems to not let things slide like Spurrier did with regards to our in state rival.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:09 PM   #71
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Default Re: Facilities War

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Yep Clemson has done it the right way, I'm sad to say. When USC was beating them 5 years in a row, they still were having some of the best years of their program history, these two recent seasons notwithstanding. After 2010 they win their first ever ACCCG, and average 10-11 wins from 2011-2013. Mostly before their IPF was started or completed, and before they even came out with their plans for their FB Ops bldg.

Because as they had their success (despite continuing to lose to us) their coaching staff not only continued to recruit their asses off, but they even ramped it up, and used their on-field success (minus how they played against us) to go after even better talent. Swinney hyped and hyped every win into something bigger than it was publicly: playing - and even losing - in the ACCT, beating a middling SEC opponent in a middling bowl game - was declared the same as winning the national championship, etc.....

And our fanbase laughed at him and called him a clown and a fool - and of course, he is - but we couldn't help but give him A+s for effort, and it was while our own staff under Spurrier was sleeping through final exams. Clemson did with their success EXACTLY what I had hoped our own staff would have done with our own 11-win seasons. It's what I had always dreamed we needed to boost our own program over that hump we've been buried under for decades. But when we got that success, Spurrier and his staff just sat down and gave up.

And now I've been going around for quite a while with a nauseous feeling in my stomach. I'm afraid tonight it's going to get worse......


I am not looking forward to the future if Clemson wins - the previous title was totally tainted, this one would just be "taint"-ed so they will be due some props. I still think a title would be due to one person, and one person only - Deshaun Watson. But Dabs and the boys brought him in, and they will reap the rewards.

We got complacent, or Spurrier did - he was old-fashioned and was never going to change his methods (recruit harder, add QC staff, do social media, make hard staff decisions, etc.) as long as things were working. Unfortunately, when things stop working, it takes 2-3 years to fix (coaching changes, facilities upgrades, multiple strong recruiting classes, adjusting to the new systems, getting experience for the newcomers).

The good news is that we are well into the rebuilding process and Clemson will have to go back a few squares without Watson and a lot of their offensive talent. Plus, we have plenty of incentive - courtesy of three straight losses and 56-7. We enjoyed the five-peat - but that is a big reason for the 56-7.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:10 PM   #72
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Default Re: Facilities War

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I didn't mention anything other than that he lied and made up out of thin air the taxpayers pitching in 5 million. Iptay borrowing from themselves is not taxpayer money. Iptay has zero to do with the state. He does that nonstop and I wish someone other than me would tell him to stop with the make believe
you telling someone to stop playing make believe, I guess you keep up with I pay tiger athletes yearly as a GAMECOCK fan and defend the tiggers as a GAMECOCK fan
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:21 PM   #73
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Yeah because me pleading for us all to demand the gecoclsake a better commitment from the admin down is me being a Clem fan. Clem fans are happy with what we're doing now. I want us to push to our potential
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:16 PM   #74
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Yeah because me pleading for us all to demand the gecoclsake a better commitment from the admin down is me being a Clem fan. Clem fans are happy with what we're doing now. I want us to push to our potential

No you arguing desperately in defense of Clemson even when you don't know the facts is you being a Clemson fan. There's a million different ways to argue for better commitment from the USC admin, but only one way for a Clemson fan to argue for Clemson, and guess which tact you chose.....
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:47 PM   #75
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Default Re: Facilities War

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I am not looking forward to the future if Clemson wins - the previous title was totally tainted, this one would just be "taint"-ed so they will be due some props. I still think a title would be due to one person, and one person only - Deshaun Watson. But Dabs and the boys brought him in, and they will reap the rewards.

We got complacent, or Spurrier did - he was old-fashioned and was never going to change his methods (recruit harder, add QC staff, do social media, make hard staff decisions, etc.) as long as things were working. Unfortunately, when things stop working, it takes 2-3 years to fix (coaching changes, facilities upgrades, multiple strong recruiting classes, adjusting to the new systems, getting experience for the newcomers).

The good news is that we are well into the rebuilding process and Clemson will have to go back a few squares without Watson and a lot of their offensive talent. Plus, we have plenty of incentive - courtesy of three straight losses and 56-7. We enjoyed the five-peat - but that is a big reason for the 56-7.
As long as Dumbo is in the Upstate, they will be a very good proogram. They built their program by recruiting the best players. That is where Spurrier failed. He had the best players for two years, and didnt realize the significance and importance of that. Dumbo has continued to recruit hard until he had the talent and depth he needs. Thats not changing any time soon. He has great talent coming in, including QB

Some day, a bigger school will come after Dabo. Ala, ND, OK, Mich, OSU and Clemson will fall back off. We are on the rise again, the hill is just a little steeper than before.
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:22 PM   #76
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Default Re: Facilities War

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Ace, those two items (indoor practice facility and FOC) are large pieces of the facilities war. They are like aircraft carriers to the Navy. Plus, Clemson also opens their FOC on national signing day which is significant. They can say to recruits, "you can play volleyball, bowl and attend cookouts on your first day in school." Coaches can walk out of their office to the practice facilities. Our coaches have to walk from the stadium to the practice facility by crossing over Bluff Road.

They beat us to the punch and when ours is built it still won't have the same amenities. At least I have not seen anything which says ours will have game rooms, BBQ grills, outdoor volleyball (great conditioning exercise by the way) and bowling.
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There are two factors being left out of the conversation when discussing the facilities at Carolina and CU, Title IX and geography.

Title IX requires proportional improvements which means you can't just improve football facilities without providing for improvements to facilities used by female athletes. That's why Baskin-Weems and the Graveyard has received face lifts. Up in Cowtown they did a major renovation to Littlejohn Colossium which was really for men's basketball but counted because women's bball and volleyball use it too.

The other thing that speeds up projects for the tiggers is the available land they have. The campus is surrounded by open space for housing expansions, etc. At Carolina you have to figure out which building to tear down or who will sell available property before you can start construction. Just think about how long it took to buy the Farmers' market.
I don't see how Clemson is winning the facilities war at all. We have a unique set of challenges to our athletics program due to being located in an urban environment and past decisions about the location of major facilities (ie: Williams-Brice Stadium).

Having a nicer FOC is irrelevant. Clemson is in the middle of nowhere, and by having those things on site they don't have to travel to Anderson/Greenville to have fun. Columbia is a real city where you have things like bowling alleys and mini-golf. That stuff goes back to the culture vs agriculture comparison, and Carolina wins that every time by virtue of being in a city.

In terms of facilities themselves, I'd love to see a direct comparison of what they've spent their money on compared to Carolina. We have completely rebuilt all of our facilities in the past 10-15 years across the entire department.
  • Basketball has seen a major infusion of cash
  • Colonial Life Arena (new)
  • Basketball Locker Rooms (renovate)
  • CLA Interior Renovation
  • CLA New hardwood design (x2)
  • Carolina Coliseum (renovate -> bball practice facilities)

    So has baseball/softball/golf/swimming
  • Founders Park (new)
  • Softball Stadium (new)
  • Golf practice course/area (new)
  • Natorium (renovate)

    And the Roost area is 100% new
  • Stone Stadium renovation (maybe??)
  • Soccer Practice etc replacing the Roost
  • Track & Field
  • Tennis,
  • Rice Academic Center (new)
  • "The Dodie" Admin Building (new)

    And the football stadium area in particular has seen tons of investment
  • Springs-Brooks Plaza (new)
  • Beast Board (new)
  • Locker Rooms (renovate)
  • Fairgrounds Parking Lot (renovate)
  • Gamecock Park/Garnet Way (new)
  • Indoor Practice Facility & Proving Grounds (new)
  • General Williams Brice Stadium upgrades (paint, bathrooms, signage)
  • Statue of George Rogers (new)
  • Gamecock statue (new)
  • Football Operations Center (planned)

These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. The conclusion you have to make is that we are committed to winning across all sports, and we're throwing money at everything. And is it working?

As far as I can tell, when you look at the AD goal of being in the top 25 in all major sports and competing for/winning conference championships (with the implied post season runs/titles) then the strategy is working. We are attracting better talent across the board.

I'm not sure I could count how many conference titles we've won across all sports in the past 15 years compared to the 15 or even 30 years prior to that. Most of our teams are competitive most of the time. I'm willing to bet that as a whole, our athletics program is more successful now than in any time in its history, including the 70s. I personally don't subscribe to the idea that Clemson winning the national championship somehow invalidates our program and the goals we have, nor does it make the comparison to Clemson's investments relevant.

So I ask you, what has Clemson done that can compare to all of that, and how can you say that Clemson is winning the facilities war because of one building?
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:30 PM   #77
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Default Re: Facilities War

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Originally Posted by CockTail View Post

Some day, a bigger school will come after Dabo.
Oh good Lord, can our fans drop this nonsense? Dabo isn't going anywhere, he has it made where he is.

Same deal with the irrational fans constantly opining that Venables is leaving any day now to coach somewhere else.

Nothing in the past history of those two could possibly lead to the conclusion they'd leave for another program.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:51 PM   #78
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Default Re: Facilities War

Our facilites are far better than a decade ago. And there are plans for improvements to continue for years to come. The school can only do so much. It's going to take an ongoing involvement from our alum and fan base. The good news, we currently are about 15-20 million ahead in revenue per year than Clemson.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:33 AM   #79
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Default Re: Facilities War

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Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
I don't see how Clemson is winning the facilities war at all. We have a unique set of challenges to our athletics program due to being located in an urban environment and past decisions about the location of major facilities (ie: Williams-Brice Stadium).

Having a nicer FOC is irrelevant. Clemson is in the middle of nowhere, and by having those things on site they don't have to travel to Anderson/Greenville to have fun. Columbia is a real city where you have things like bowling alleys and mini-golf. That stuff goes back to the culture vs agriculture comparison, and Carolina wins that every time by virtue of being in a city.

In terms of facilities themselves, I'd love to see a direct comparison of what they've spent their money on compared to Carolina. We have completely rebuilt all of our facilities in the past 10-15 years across the entire department.
  • Basketball has seen a major infusion of cash
  • Colonial Life Arena (new)
  • Basketball Locker Rooms (renovate)
  • CLA Interior Renovation
  • CLA New hardwood design (x2)
  • Carolina Coliseum (renovate -> bball practice facilities)

    So has baseball/softball/golf/swimming
  • Founders Park (new)
  • Softball Stadium (new)
  • Golf practice course/area (new)
  • Natorium (renovate)

    And the Roost area is 100% new
  • Stone Stadium renovation (maybe??)
  • Soccer Practice etc replacing the Roost
  • Track & Field
  • Tennis,
  • Rice Academic Center (new)
  • "The Dodie" Admin Building (new)

    And the football stadium area in particular has seen tons of investment
  • Springs-Brooks Plaza (new)
  • Beast Board (new)
  • Locker Rooms (renovate)
  • Fairgrounds Parking Lot (renovate)
  • Gamecock Park/Garnet Way (new)
  • Indoor Practice Facility & Proving Grounds (new)
  • General Williams Brice Stadium upgrades (paint, bathrooms, signage)
  • Statue of George Rogers (new)
  • Gamecock statue (new)
  • Football Operations Center (planned)

These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more. The conclusion you have to make is that we are committed to winning across all sports, and we're throwing money at everything. And is it working?

As far as I can tell, when you look at the AD goal of being in the top 25 in all major sports and competing for/winning conference championships (with the implied post season runs/titles) then the strategy is working. We are attracting better talent across the board.

I'm not sure I could count how many conference titles we've won across all sports in the past 15 years compared to the 15 or even 30 years prior to that. Most of our teams are competitive most of the time. I'm willing to bet that as a whole, our athletics program is more successful now than in any time in its history, including the 70s. I personally don't subscribe to the idea that Clemson winning the national championship somehow invalidates our program and the goals we have, nor does it make the comparison to Clemson's investments relevant.

So I ask you, what has Clemson done that can compare to all of that, and how can you say that Clemson is winning the facilities war because of one building?
The CLAW is 14 years old; if you're a high school basketball player, that is not "new". Our practice facilities are not up to snuff, in my opinion.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:51 AM   #80
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Default Re: Facilities War

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Let me know if that eases your discomfort watching them play tonight??? LOL.
I didn't watch them play...did you?
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