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Old 02-10-2018, 08:27 AM   #41
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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Originally Posted by BringBackGarcia View Post
I'm just going to throw this out there and leave it. We have a head football coach that has been at Texas, LSU, Auburn, and Florida. I think he's well versed in all the methodology of cheating, even if indirectly.

It's not just the coach. All he has to do is select the players and turn his head. At schools like that the boosters and the administration have already bought in to it. Although I will say that I've seen posters here on this board state that they would be willing to do whatever it takes to win, thankfully the majority of boosters and administration aren't.

Bottom line is that coaches can work hard, schools can build great facilities and have great academics, and schools like ours can win a lot of games and be successful, but to win a championship in this day and age without cheating takes a heck of a lot of luck.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:45 AM   #42
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
Joyner put up better numbers against better competition. But Lawrence is the one that can play as a freshman? Okay.

Lawrence can play as a Freshman, and he is the one that you would build a team around? Aren't Dual Threat QBs - that can run - the better option these days? Isn't Lawrence a pure Pro Style guy? Joyner may have a ton to work on as a passer, but he is already a polished runner. Is Lawrence a polished runner? Will he ever be?

Reality is that Lawrence is a back-up (to a Dual Threat QB), maybe even a RS next year. Same as Joyner. Lawrence could start as a RS Freshman/Sophomore, Joyner would be competing for a back-up role. Joyner has time to work on his passing and get better. I don't think that Lawrence will ever be a running QB.

You reference Watson and Tua and say that Lawrence is like them. Sorry, that is whack - both Tua and Watson are Dual Threat QBs, just like Joyner. Lawrence is totally different - a Pro Style QB. If you are looking at an immediate impact guy, ala Tua and Watson, that would be Joyner.
Mike Farrel from rivals has dubbed Lawrence the best player he’s ever scouted so there’s that lol
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:08 AM   #43
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

It takes far more talent than we currently have on the team. If we're able to get to the level Bama, UGA, cu and some others are, most of these current guys will be gone. We're several recruiting cycles away from getting there and can't continue the trend of missing out on players that we've missed in state. You can argue this class vs cu and others but the fact is they're continuing to build quality depth. We're starting to get a little depth at some positions. Still a long way from having true depth and folks on this board continue to confuse # of backups vs quality depth.
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Old 02-10-2018, 10:53 AM   #44
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
Joyner put up better numbers against better competition. But Lawrence is the one that can play as a freshman? Okay.

Lawrence can play as a Freshman, and he is the one that you would build a team around? Aren't Dual Threat QBs - that can run - the better option these days? Isn't Lawrence a pure Pro Style guy? Joyner may have a ton to work on as a passer, but he is already a polished runner. Is Lawrence a polished runner? Will he ever be?

Reality is that Lawrence is a back-up (to a Dual Threat QB), maybe even a RS next year. Same as Joyner. Lawrence could start as a RS Freshman/Sophomore, Joyner would be competing for a back-up role. Joyner has time to work on his passing and get better. I don't think that Lawrence will ever be a running QB.

You reference Watson and Tua and say that Lawrence is like them. Sorry, that is whack - both Tua and Watson are Dual Threat QBs, just like Joyner. Lawrence is totally different - a Pro Style QB. If you are looking at an immediate impact guy, ala Tua and Watson, that would be Joyner.
Ace, I admire strong, dedicated fans.

But I read your posts here and in the smack forum, and all I can do is shake my head.

You’re bending over backwards to try and twist stats to show the #1 player in the nation is equal or less than whatever ranking Dak has, but it just doesn’t work.

I’m happy to have Dak. Reality is barring injury, he’s not going to start for a couple of years. If he does, it means we’re in trouble.

Clemson has the luxury of bringing Lawrence along slowly, they already have an experienced starter and another 5 Star who’s seen game time. Lawrence wasn’t rated #1 for nothing.

The bottom line is, they have more talent than we do. Gap is closing a bit, but they have more and better players at just about every position.

That by itself doesn’t mean everything...guys blow out knees, break legs, get arrested, get lazy, get egotistical, punch Dabo....things happen.

The only reason we got Dak is Clemson dropped him in favor of the #1 guy in the nation. I hope he uses that as fuel to make himself the best, while Lawrence sits on his awards and thinks it’ll be handed to him.
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Old 02-10-2018, 11:38 AM   #45
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

Bottom line is it takes top talent. You also have to be able to rotate your staterswith guys just as talented. This take time. Especially when you're building a program. A coach can only do so much.
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:06 PM   #46
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

Two words:

Defensive Lineman

No other position has as much direct correlation with championships. I don't have the data to back this up, but I feel certain it's the case. Control of both sides of the LOS is huge, but I feel like control on defense is much more important.

Clemson has always pulled in elite skill players. Things changed for them when they started getting Beasley, Watkins, Dodds, Wilkins, Lawrence, Ferrell etc. And not just getting them as a one off, but in bunches, like Bama did.
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:47 PM   #47
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

mack, I agree the game is won in the trenches. And, a good defense can beat a good offense.
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Old 02-10-2018, 12:54 PM   #48
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

When Pat Summitt lost her first game because the other had better players, her Dad told her " You don't win the Kentucky Derby by riding a mule". I will agree that Defense wins championships, but it is the BEST defense that wins.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:00 PM   #49
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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Originally Posted by PFW79 View Post
Can you provide proof that Joyner played against “better competition” other than the fact that the HS’s in his division averaged a couple hundred more students than Lawrence’s opponents? Surely that isn’t the only thing you’re using.

Again, Joyner running instead of handing the ball off doesn’t mean he had better numbers, it just means he had more action plays than Lawrence. Lawrence was far superior in all passing numbers. We’ve also seen some highly touted DT QBs succeed recently in SC like Nunez and McIlwain, so a bit surprised that you’re willing to get burned again

Lawrence would be 4th in GA career passing yards with just his 1st half stats alone. If you doubled that number (assuming he played full games instead of sitting them out) he’d pass Maty Mauk for most career passing yards ever in HS. Instead he has to settle for just outside the top 10 all-time
I keep seeing an image in my head of urnge colored cartoon penguins saying "Just spin and deflect, boys, spin and deflect".

A "couple of hundred more students"? 4A in Georgia is 981 -1385 students, an average of less than 1200 students. In South Carolina, 5A starts at around 1600 students and goes up to Wando's 4,375 students. Fort Dorchester plays in Region 7-AAAAA, which averages 2,251 students.

So yes, school size is plenty of proof that competition is much, much better - because Joyner plays against schools that are much, much larger. South Carolina has similar demographics, is just as fanatic about football, and has always produced as many or more NFL players per capita.

More "action plays" for Joyner? Do you have any idea what you are babbling about? WTH is an "action play"?

And Joyner hardly ever played in the Second Half either - he had a PLAYOFF game where he did not finish the First QUARTER.

More production against better competition - it is just that simple. Lawrence has the higher star rating and may prove to be the better player, but he is not better based on his on the field performance to date. Joyner is.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:24 PM   #50
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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Originally Posted by pitchcock View Post
Ace, I admire strong, dedicated fans.

But I read your posts here and in the smack forum, and all I can do is shake my head.

You’re bending over backwards to try and twist stats to show the #1 player in the nation is equal or less than whatever ranking Dak has, but it just doesn’t work.

I’m happy to have Dak. Reality is barring injury, he’s not going to start for a couple of years. If he does, it means we’re in trouble.

Clemson has the luxury of bringing Lawrence along slowly, they already have an experienced starter and another 5 Star who’s seen game time. Lawrence wasn’t rated #1 for nothing.

The bottom line is, they have more talent than we do. Gap is closing a bit, but they have more and better players at just about every position.

That by itself doesn’t mean everything...guys blow out knees, break legs, get arrested, get lazy, get egotistical, punch Dabo....things happen.

The only reason we got Dak is Clemson dropped him in favor of the #1 guy in the nation. I hope he uses that as fuel to make himself the best, while Lawrence sits on his awards and thinks it’ll be handed to him.
Gotcha. Ratings are infallible. I sure wish we got either of Clemson's 5* WRs - RayRay or Deon Cain - rather than our useless 3*, Deebo Samuel.

To go with a QB example, I sure wish we got 5* Jacob Eason - the most similar recent recruit to Lawrence in terms of ratings, size, passing ability - instead of 4* Jake Bentley. In fact, that is almost an exact comparison to the Lawrence/Joyner match-up - a 5* can't miss QB versus a middling 4*. Well, except that - unlike Eason-Bentley - Joyner has the better numbers, and against better competition.

And when I point out those obvious facts, I get shouted down and am accused of "bending over backwards" to promote the Gamecocks. Sorry, facts are facts, stats are stats, and it is valid to point out that they favor Joyner.

Dabs tried to get both QBs. Did he get the better QB? I don't know, he does not know, and you do not know.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:55 PM   #51
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

It’s simple, recruit dominate offensive and defensive linemen and that will give you a shot.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:55 PM   #52
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

Every national title winner in the last 16 seasons (at least) has had at least 1 top 10 recruiting class in the previous 4 classes leading up to the title. And, with the exception of Auburn, I believe, all the others had multiple top 10 classes.

The takeaway: you're not winning a title if you don't get at least 1 top 10 class, and it'll probably take a couple.

Period.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:22 PM   #53
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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Every national title winner in the last 16 seasons (at least) has had at least 1 top 10 recruiting class in the previous 4 classes leading up to the title. And, with the exception of Auburn, I believe, all the others had multiple top 10 classes.

The takeaway: you're not winning a title if you don't get at least 1 top 10 class, and it'll probably take a couple.

Period.
Well, let’s get a top ten class in ‘19 and ‘20, then win it all in January of ‘21.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:11 PM   #54
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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Well, let’s get a top ten class in ‘19 and ‘20, then win it all in January of ‘21.
We need just one, per the premise of this thread. So let's get one this year and win the natty in Bentley's last year.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:45 PM   #55
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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We need just one, per the premise of this thread. So let's get one this year and win the natty in Bentley's last year.

This year's cycle is over.......
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:12 PM   #56
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
We need just one, per the premise of this thread. So let's get one this year and win the natty in Bentley's last year.

Right, but since there was only one team with one top ten class that won it all over that time period, figured just to go ahead and have another for some insurance. I’ll take one for Bentley’s last year though.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:14 PM   #57
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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This year's cycle is over.......
I think he means for 2019.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:48 PM   #58
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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Well, let’s get a top ten class in ‘19 and ‘20, then win it all in January of ‘21.
I think we have a coach who can reel in a top 10 class. If not, it won't be for lack of effort.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:54 PM   #59
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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I think we have a coach who can reel in a top 10 class. If not, it won't be for lack of effort.
Spot on, he is a tenacious recruiter going against the big boys, doing everything he can do.
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Old 02-11-2018, 01:05 AM   #60
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Default Re: Q: What does it take to win a title?

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Mike Farrel from rivals has dubbed Lawrence the best player he’s ever scouted so there’s that lol
Analysts have a 40% error rate
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