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Old 05-24-2015, 09:32 AM   #41
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taney18hill View Post
If 11th in the East is OVERachieving (whatever the circumstances), that's a very strong piece of evidence against an extension.
Well, I suppose pointy-headed, one size fits all thinking is to be applauded in your view. I just disagree, as I sited a variety of factors why I think it's in the best interests of the program to extend Martin's contract and why I think Martin is deserving. I can't imagine why you would want to impede his recruiting by embroiling him in a coaching controversy especially the very year we're on the verge of recruiting a seminal class in the history of our hoops program featuring Seventh Woods and other excellent prospects with whom we are involved.

Let's all hope the powers that be are capable of a little broader perspective than this unfortunate gentleman.
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Old 05-24-2015, 09:36 AM   #42
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

I'm fully behind Frank. IMO, he needs to show good progress next year and I believe he will.

Our basketball program was in the gutter. It can be compared to Baylor Football, pre-Briles (actually, pre-Guy Morriss.)

Last edited by Legalman72; 05-24-2015 at 10:46 AM..
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Old 05-24-2015, 02:09 PM   #43
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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Originally Posted by Taney18hill View Post
If 11th in the East is OVERachieving (whatever the circumstances), that's a very strong piece of evidence against an extension.
Basketball doesn't have divisions.
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Old 05-24-2015, 11:15 PM   #44
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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Originally Posted by warriorcock View Post
If some refuse to acknowledge the progress that has been made since Frank took over vs where we are today, then they are either blind or they just choose to be negative. But this negativity is annoying and rather tiresome to be honest.
Let them ignore it. South Carolina went from 115th in the nation in adjusted defensive efficiency to 26th in the nation. That's a HUGE jump.

Last year was a tremendous improvement from how far this team has come. Yes, they fell apart after the Iowa State game, but they still managed to win another two games in the conference tournament and will have another year of chemistry under Frank. They're making the right strides.
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Old 05-25-2015, 02:53 AM   #45
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

Give us a winning season before the idea of an extension of a contract is even considered.
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Old 05-25-2015, 04:23 AM   #46
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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Give us a winning season before the idea of an extension of a contract is even considered.
We finished the year with a winning record. 17-16.
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Old 05-25-2015, 04:31 AM   #47
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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We finished the year with a winning record. 17-16.
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Old 05-25-2015, 05:02 AM   #48
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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We finished the year with a winning record. 17-16.

my bad.
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:23 PM   #49
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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In my line of work, contract extensions, bonuses, raises, etc are handed out as rewards for tangible, quantifiable, meaningful results that have brought profit to the company. If it hasn't profited the company, then it's not a meaningful result. They might think I'm a great guy and show lots of promise but lots of promise doesn't get you the aforementioned benefits. Results does. We set a very low bar for success here if we hand out extensions for anything less than proven results, which means wins.
Does your line of work include recruiting people to stay on the job for 4+ years BECAUSE you are the leader of the team?

Coach Martin's job does.

The thinking that you provide for your line of reasoning is comparing apples to oranges.

If Coach Martin's contract is not extended, potential recruits (like a NATIONALLY RANKED recruit in Seventh Woods) can see that they may not have a coach for 4 full years, and that scares some off. (See HBC Steve Spurrier's recruiting in 2014/15 for prime example).

It's not an issue of rewarding for "proven results" as you state, but since you still want to talk about getting results... FM has improved the record of this team EVERY year he's been head coach. He started from scratch in year 2 (bringing in SEVEN recruits) and still managed to improve our record in the SEC. Last year, CFM got us to our FIRST WINNING SEASON since 2008/09. (And just for the record, we were 14-18 (4-14 SEC) in 2012-13; 14-20 (5-13 SEC) in 2013-14; 17-16 (6-12 SEC) in 2014-15).

Help me understand why aiding in recruiting AND a year-by-year improvement are not worth a contract extension?

I'm not sure how you can say that those are not delivering results.
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:38 PM   #50
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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Does your line of work include recruiting people to stay on the job for 4+ years BECAUSE you are the leader of the team?

Coach Martin's job does.

The thinking that you provide for your line of reasoning is comparing apples to oranges.

If Coach Martin's contract is not extended, potential recruits (like a NATIONALLY RANKED recruit in Seventh Woods) can see that they may not have a coach for 4 full years, and that scares some off. (See HBC Steve Spurrier's recruiting in 2014/15 for prime example).

It's not an issue of rewarding for "proven results" as you state, but since you still want to talk about getting results... FM has improved the record of this team EVERY year he's been head coach. He started from scratch in year 2 (bringing in SEVEN recruits) and still managed to improve our record in the SEC. Last year, CFM got us to our FIRST WINNING SEASON since 2008/09. (And just for the record, we were 14-18 (4-14 SEC) in 2012-13; 14-20 (5-13 SEC) in 2013-14; 17-16 (6-12 SEC) in 2014-15).

Help me understand why aiding in recruiting AND a year-by-year improvement are not worth a contract extension?

I'm not sure how you can say that those are not delivering results.
I don't think it's an issue to hold off the extension talks for one more year. Next year will tell us a lot. NIT or better=good, no postseason=no future with Martin. I think if we make the postseason, recruits will know that an extension is on the way.
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:55 PM   #51
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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I don't think it's an issue to hold off the extension talks for one more year. Next year will tell us a lot. NIT or better=good, no postseason=no future with Martin. I think if we make the postseason, recruits will know that an extension is on the way.
Really? So, let's say we have another winning season, and improve our SEC record again, yet are not selected for the NIT. That means no future with Coach Martin?

Post-season play is THAT important to building a solid foundation and a winning program? Would you have not given Dawn Staley a contract extension after her 3rd season? She only improved conference play by ONE game between her 2nd and 3rd seasons. The Gamecocks made the NIT that year, and then the following season was when she got the ladies into the NCAAs (and has continued to do so every season since).

My point is that CFM has steadily improved our SEC record every season, despite some ridiculously stacked-against-him odds. Dawn did the EXACT same thing, and you didn't hear the howls to sack her did you? (Nor do you hear bitching about her program now). What did she do differently? Other than signing Kelsey Bone and creating some excitement around the program by that name and recruiting number (#2 in the nation)... not very much.

Coach Martin is in a position to do almost EXACTLY the same thing as Dawn Staley - signing of Seventh Woods (a top 10 national recruit), and possibly get us into the NIT or NCAAs within a year of doing so, since all of the pieces are now in place.

Why should a contract extension be tied to post-season play this early into CFM's contractual agreement? We were a dumpster fire of a program when he took over (from 21-10 to 10-21 in 4 years under Darrin Horn). Coach Martin has gotten proven results. Give the man the luxury of showing others he can get the job done at USC, rather than kicking him to the curb like yesterday's trash if he only squeezes one more win out of the team each season.
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Old 05-25-2015, 01:11 PM   #52
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

I think Frank definitely deserves an extension. We've improved on the court every year by the eye test, not just by the record and recruiting is really starting to bear fruit. We need to continue the momentum and locking him up is an important cog.
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Old 05-25-2015, 01:53 PM   #53
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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Originally Posted by Taney18hill View Post
The problems is that for the vast majority of fans the only statistic they give a rip about is wins and losses. There has been some slight improvement in that area, but I think most fans would like to have seen more than a 3 win improvement from year 1. In Staley's first year the women were 10-18 (2-12) and by her 3rd year the women were 18-15 (8-8) and in the NIT.

Knowing that the women's team was every bit the dumpster fire when Staley took over as the men's team was when Martin took over, I think many fans wonder why the progress hasn't been more similar.

Unfair or not, that's the unavoidable comparison.
actually it is pretty avoidable
-Different Genders
-Staley is like the Michael Jordan of womens basketball, Frank is a good coach but not that high profile...so the comparison is very avoidable, just dont do it.
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Old 05-25-2015, 03:33 PM   #54
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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Originally Posted by Taney18hill View Post
The problems is that for the vast majority of fans the only statistic they give a rip about is wins and losses. There has been some slight improvement in that area, but I think most fans would like to have seen more than a 3 win improvement from year 1. In Staley's first year the women were 10-18 (2-12) and by her 3rd year the women were 18-15 (8-8) and in the NIT.

Knowing that the women's team was every bit the dumpster fire when Staley took over as the men's team was when Martin took over, I think many fans wonder why the progress hasn't been more similar.

Unfair or not, that's the unavoidable comparison.
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actually it is pretty avoidable
-Different Genders
-Staley is like the Michael Jordan of womens basketball, Frank is a good coach but not that high profile...so the comparison is very avoidable, just dont do it.
I'd like to add that the "dumpster fire" mentioned in the thread was 8-21 (2-12 SEC) in 2004-05, improved to 17-12 (7-7 SEC) in 2005-06, 18-15 (6-8 SEC) in 2006-07, and finally was 16-16 (4-10 SEC) in 2007-08 - the 4 years prior to Dawn Staley (under Susan Walvius).

The men's program in the 4 years previous to CFM (under Darrin Horn) was as follows: 21-10 (10-6 SEC) in 2008-09, 15-16 (6-10 SEC) in 2009-10, 14-16 (5-11 SEC) in 2010-11, and finally was 10-21 (2-14 SEC) in 2011-12.

Which one looks more like the true "dumpster fire" when you see the numbers side by side? Not really even a contest IMO.
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Old 05-25-2015, 05:24 PM   #55
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

Even if you have questions about FM, it shouldn't be too difficult to even the most thick headed and obtuse fan to understand the advantages to the program of adding one year to the contract when we're on the verge of getting the Seventh Woods commitment. It's nothing short of stupid not to give that kid the extra bit of assurance that FM will be his coach. I'm suggesting an extension, not a renegotiation.
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Old 05-25-2015, 07:27 PM   #56
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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Really? So, let's say we have another winning season, and improve our SEC record again, yet are not selected for the NIT. That means no future with Coach Martin?

Post-season play is THAT important to building a solid foundation and a winning program? Would you have not given Dawn Staley a contract extension after her 3rd season? She only improved conference play by ONE game between her 2nd and 3rd seasons. The Gamecocks made the NIT that year, and then the following season was when she got the ladies into the NCAAs (and has continued to do so every season since).

My point is that CFM has steadily improved our SEC record every season, despite some ridiculously stacked-against-him odds. Dawn did the EXACT same thing, and you didn't hear the howls to sack her did you? (Nor do you hear bitching about her program now). What did she do differently? Other than signing Kelsey Bone and creating some excitement around the program by that name and recruiting number (#2 in the nation)... not very much.

Coach Martin is in a position to do almost EXACTLY the same thing as Dawn Staley - signing of Seventh Woods (a top 10 national recruit), and possibly get us into the NIT or NCAAs within a year of doing so, since all of the pieces are now in place.

Why should a contract extension be tied to post-season play this early into CFM's contractual agreement? We were a dumpster fire of a program when he took over (from 21-10 to 10-21 in 4 years under Darrin Horn). Coach Martin has gotten proven results. Give the man the luxury of showing others he can get the job done at USC, rather than kicking him to the curb like yesterday's trash if he only squeezes one more win out of the team each season.
I'm sure if Dawn Staley didn't make the postseason in 4 years, she'd be in trouble too. But like you said, she made it in year 3. If Frank can't make a postseason next year than there should be some serious red flags. 4 years is enough for a coach to make the postseason in basketball.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:35 PM   #57
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

Year 1 for Martin should not count b/c Horn Left the GAMECOCKS with nothing. That is why he brought 9 players in year 2 AND cleaned House.
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Old 05-26-2015, 01:40 AM   #58
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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I'm sure if Dawn Staley didn't make the postseason in 4 years, she'd be in trouble too. But like you said, she made it in year 3. If Frank can't make a postseason next year than there should be some serious red flags. 4 years is enough for a coach to make the postseason in basketball.
It took billy donovan years to make a winner out of florida. Give him time
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Old 05-26-2015, 07:20 AM   #59
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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It took billy donovan years to make a winner out of florida. Give him time
Not really. Had them in the NCAA title game by year 4.
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Old 05-26-2015, 01:25 PM   #60
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Default Re: EXTEND MARTIN'S CONTRACT TODAY!!!

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It took billy donovan years to make a winner out of florida. Give him time
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Not really. Had them in the NCAA title game by year 4.
from Wiki:

With few talented players on the roster, Donovan's first two Florida squads had records of 13-17 and 15-16. There were some signs of improvement, however, as the 1997-98 team was invited to the National Invitation Tournament (NIT), and Donovan's "relentless" recruiting during this period set the foundation for future success.[18]

Donovan finally brought lasting success to the Florida basketball program during the 1998-99 season. The Gators went 22-9, earning 20+ wins for only the fifth time in history and starting a streak of 16 consecutive 20-win seasons. The Gators continued to play well in the 1999 post-season, as they made their third NCAA Sweet Sixteen appearance and became the second squad in school history to appear in the final top-25 polls (No. 17 in the ESPN/USA Today Poll and No. 23 in the Associated Press Poll).

1999–2000 saw Donovan lead the Gators to their first regular season SEC Championship and their second NCAA Final Four appearance, defeating North Carolina in the national semi-finals before falling to Michigan State in the NCAA championship game.


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