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Old 01-23-2018, 07:11 PM   #1
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Default Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

"Six of the past seven years, the No. 1 player in South Carolina has gone out of state to play college basketball. The only player to stay, PJ Dozier, helped South Carolina to the Final Four this past season."

That tells you all you need to know about how in-state recruits view or program.

Frank better get on it and figure out a way to do what Spurrier did when he arrived and lock down the top talent in the state.

http://www.thestate.com/sports/colle...196041029.html
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

Quote:
Originally Posted by CockNJersey View Post
"Six of the past seven years, the No. 1 player in South Carolina has gone out of state to play college basketball. The only player to stay, PJ Dozier, helped South Carolina to the Final Four this past season."

That tells you all you need to know about how in-state recruits view or program.

Frank better get on it and figure out a way to do what Spurrier did when he arrived and lock down the top talent in the state.

http://www.thestate.com/sports/colle...196041029.html
I'm not sure that it comes down to Frank. I mean he's obviously a big part of it, but there just isn't the same kind of basketball culture in this state that there is for football. How many people in this state didn't go to college and root for USC or Clemson in football, but are bandwagon UK/UNC/Duke fans in basketball?

If we're going to keep kids in State Frank needs to keep getting to the dance to elevate the basketball culture in the state. Kids that love basketball are going to love the teams they grow up watching in March, and before last year it had been a long time since we were one of those teams.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by sandstorm2001 View Post
I'm not sure that it comes down to Frank. I mean he's obviously a big part of it, but there just isn't the same kind of basketball culture in this state that there is for football. How many people in this state didn't go to college and root for USC or Clemson in football, but are bandwagon UK/UNC/Duke fans in basketball?

If we're going to keep kids in State Frank needs to keep getting to the dance to elevate the basketball culture in the state. Kids that love basketball are going to love the teams they grow up watching in March, and before last year it had been a long time since we were one of those teams.
If the stature of your program isn't such that you can keep the best talent at home (even on a semi-regular basis), what hope is there of getting enough out of state talent to make NCAA runs on any kind regular basis?
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

Quote:
Originally Posted by CockNJersey View Post
"Six of the past seven years, the No. 1 player in South Carolina has gone out of state to play college basketball. The only player to stay, PJ Dozier, helped South Carolina to the Final Four this past season."

That tells you all you need to know about how in-state recruits view or program.

Frank better get on it and figure out a way to do what Spurrier did when he arrived and lock down the top talent in the state.

http://www.thestate.com/sports/colle...196041029.html
Frank needs good players, but they don't have to come from SC. I don't know why some people are so fixated on signing players from SC. It isn't necessary. We have offered a lot of SC players and they have chosen to go elsewhere. It isn't Frank's fault they turned down his offer.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by CockNJersey View Post
If the stature of your program isn't such that you can keep the best talent at home (even on a semi-regular basis), what hope is there of getting enough out of state talent to make NCAA runs on any kind regular basis?
That's where good evals and good player development come in. The state of SC is insanely difficult to recruit in when it comes for instate schools in basketball, to start keeping those types of players we have to have consistent success first. It sucks but that is the reality of the situation.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

It doesn't matter where the players are from.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

Thumpin is right, Basketball is much different than Football for recruiting. Football is more territorial - you want to stay close to home so family and friends can come see you play, and games are big social events.

In basketball, there is more travel, you play all over the country, it is not a big social event, a lot of the games are on weeknights, etc. The players do not need to be close to home - which hurts us with keeping talent in-state, but helps when we look out of state.

Frank gets a bunch of foreign guys too - it is kinda hard for them to stay close to home so their families can come watch them.

If we can win, we will keep more kids home. We have the coach and the facilities. But it is tough when two of the elites in college football are in a neighboring state and we have not had a lot of success. Yet.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

Ultimately recruits have to buy into Frank's system and back it up with a successful work ethic.

In-state recruiters have also gravitated toward the uppity day schools instead of the regular high schools, where plenty good players are.

The kids at the smaller high schools end up getting picked up by colleges outside SC.

Sad.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:11 PM   #9
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by thumpin big View Post
Frank needs good players, but they don't have to come from SC. I don't know why some people are so fixated on signing players from SC. It isn't necessary. We have offered a lot of SC players and they have chosen to go elsewhere. It isn't Frank's fault they turned down his offer.
Yeah I agree. Just get good players. Who cares where they’re from?
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

It doesn't matter where the players are from, but for the PROGRAM - not any particular head coach or staff, but the PROGRAM - to have consistent success, it's paramount to be able to pull at least a fair share of the top in-state talent.

A coaching staff comes in with solid connections from FL or GA or NC or NY and can pull talent from those places, then great: that staff will have success for as long as they can continue that. But when the time comes that that staff leaves the program and is replaced by another, that new staff will have to keep bringing in their own out-of-state connections with them to keep the program rolling.

It just makes it that much harder when they can't rely on in-state talent that's home-grown and within an easy drive away, especially when the state in question regularly puts out quality blue-chip caliber talent....
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:19 PM   #11
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

I realize that it may not matter where they come from in the short term, but USC needs to have players that grow up wanting to be Gamecocks. Winning over a decade is the only thing that will do that, but it is extra special, when a local kid that grew up loving USC ends up coming here and being successful.

Longterm you definitely want/need to be able to pick up those 4 and 5 star local kids that grew up being fans.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

These kids are being guided to Blue Blood programs through their AAU and extracurricular league connections. The recent crackdown is proof of this. More Duke, NC, and Kentucky commits allow the AAU programs to raise dues and fees. That is before the shoe companies get involved. Dozier committed because of strong family connections to Carolina (dad,uncle,sister). Otherwise, he would of ended up at NC or Duke.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:34 PM   #13
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by TaySC View Post
I realize that it may not matter where they come from in the short term, but USC needs to have players that grow up wanting to be Gamecocks. Winning over a decade is the only thing that will do that, but it is extra special, when a local kid that grew up loving USC ends up coming here and being successful.

Longterm you definitely want/need to be able to pick up those 4 and 5 star local kids that grew up being fans.

I don't think teams that actually win a lot spend a lot of time worrying where their players come from or think its more or less special.

We aren't ever going to win consistently until we can recruit regionally at least.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

And, don't assume there isn't cheating going on in recruiting SC high school basketball players. SC high school players are as apt to accept money to play somewhere as are high school players from other states. That might explain why some SC players are not going to USC. Schools whose BIG SPORT is basketball might not be above cheating in order to get players who can help them continue to be "basketball schools". And it happens in football too. There are several reasons why the best players in SC have turned down USC the last 35+ years. Money was probably involved in some of those decisions.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:44 PM   #15
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by VBCock View Post
I don't think teams that actually win a lot spend a lot of time worrying where their players come from or think its more or less special.

We aren't ever going to win consistently until we can recruit regionally at least.
There is a reason that players like A'ja Wilson, PJ Dozier and even Clowney and Lattimore tend to be fan favorites.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

It's not really sobering. Its expected, South Carolina schools arent known for basketball (although thats changing hopefully). Its gonna take a lot more winning and effort to change it.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:16 AM   #17
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

“Who cares where the players are from?” That’s totally stupid. If you can’t even convince the better players in your own state to stay home, you don’t have a prayer of gettting quality out-of-state talent on any kind of regular basis.

Basketball is no different than footballl. The bulk of our games are played in the same territory as football games. Family would get the opportunity to see their kid play almost 20!times at home alone.

Try to explain it away all you want, but if we can’t compete for our own in-state talent we’ll never have consistent success. Never.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:15 AM   #18
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

Frank Maguire won with f*cking Yankees.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:44 AM   #19
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by CockNJersey View Post
“Who cares where the players are from?” That’s totally stupid. If you can’t even convince the better players in your own state to stay home, you don’t have a prayer of gettting quality out-of-state talent on any kind of regular basis.

Basketball is no different than footballl. The bulk of our games are played in the same territory as football games. Family would get the opportunity to see their kid play almost 20!times at home alone.

Try to explain it away all you want, but if we can’t compete for our own in-state talent we’ll never have consistent success. Never.
I want the in-state players to stay home too. We are getting some and need to get more moving forward.

But Frank can make the program successful without getting a lot of in-state kids. Did people question the earlier Frank, McGuire, on why he was bringing in players from New York City? No, because he was winning big, and could have won bigger - Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was passed over by McGuire because he did not think we were ready to be integrated.

Frank's ties are to Miami, New York, and AAU teams, and a lot of his focus is on international players that stick around and take to his coaching. And if he can win consistently with those players (and we are in good shape to date), we will be fine.

And with success, we we will attract more local players.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:56 AM   #20
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
I want the in-state players to stay home too. We are getting some and need to get more moving forward.

But Frank can make the program successful without getting a lot of in-state kids. Did people question the earlier Frank, McGuire, on why he was bringing in players from New York City? No, because he was winning big, and could have won bigger - Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was passed over by McGuire because he did not think we were ready to be integrated.

Frank's ties are to Miami, New York, and AAU teams, and a lot of his focus is on international players that stick around and take to his coaching. And if he can win consistently with those players (and we are in good shape to date), we will be fine.

And with success, we we will attract more local players.

All your argument makes sense if the current Frank is bringing in better player from out of state than the ones who pass us over. Mostly he is not. Losing players out of state to Ole Miss is one thing, but this state has produced some very good players who ultimately passed on USC in favor of blue blood programs. It's a struggle and you're going to lose more of those fights than you win, I believe, with where we are as a bball program currently and Frank's style. The attn of that Final Four run has faded especially if we don't even make the tourney this year.
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