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Go Back   CockyTalk > Gamecocks Sports > The Proving Ground > Basketball Recruits

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Old 01-24-2018, 11:10 AM   #21
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by Cockhornleghorn View Post
It doesn't matter where the players are from.
Hmmm...... not sure I agree my friend. While you can win with out of state players, I don't think we will ever achieve our goals if we can't get a couple players to stay in state.

Guess we will see how this plays......

Sure as hell glad we got Thornwell to stay!
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:19 AM   #22
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by gotrice? View Post
That's where good evals and good player development come in. The state of SC is insanely difficult to recruit in when it comes for instate schools in basketball, to start keeping those types of players we have to have consistent success first. It sucks but that is the reality of the situation.
This. You don't need one and done's to get to the tournament.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:25 AM   #23
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
I want the in-state players to stay home too. We are getting some and need to get more moving forward.

But Frank can make the program successful without getting a lot of in-state kids. Did people question the earlier Frank, McGuire, on why he was bringing in players from New York City? No, because he was winning big, and could have won bigger - Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was passed over by McGuire because he did not think we were ready to be integrated.

Frank's ties are to Miami, New York, and AAU teams, and a lot of his focus is on international players that stick around and take to his coaching. And if he can win consistently with those players (and we are in good shape to date), we will be fine.

And with success, we we will attract more local players.
I don’t know. For one, McGuire did his thing nearly 40 years ago.

I just don’t see how you’re going to attract good players from out of state if the in-state kids who know you best aren’t interested. Recruiting 101 is to lock down your borders.

Can we win big and consistently with the international players you mention? Maybe. We haven’t yet. Our greatest success under Martin coincided with getting 2 great in-state recruits.

SC isn’t exactly a basketball recruiting hotbed, so I understand that we’ll never be able to build with in-state talent alone. But when we do have top notch players, they tend to go elsewhere. Dozier comes with an asterisk bc of the strong family ties.

If you’re settling for b-talent in state, you’re probably not faring much better out of state.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:49 AM   #24
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

If Frank offers in state players, and they refuse his offer and go elsewhere, who is responsible for that? Players from SC have been refusing USC offers for a lot of years and from several USC basketball coaches.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:52 AM   #25
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by thumpin big View Post
If Frank offers in state players, and they refuse his offer and go elsewhere, who is responsible for that? Players from SC have been refusing USC offers for a lot of years and from several USC basketball coaches.
Yes, you have summarized the problem. We need to fix it.

If you think making an offer to player is all there is to recruiting, you are sorely mistaken.
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Old 01-24-2018, 12:01 PM   #26
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by thumpin big View Post
If Frank offers in state players, and they refuse his offer and go elsewhere, who is responsible for that? Players from SC have been refusing USC offers for a lot of years and from several USC basketball coaches.
Part of why they reject the offer is because our offer comes late. We can act like not getting good local players is not a big deal, but our better years have been when we had local players leading our roster.
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Old 01-24-2018, 12:41 PM   #27
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by SCohioBoy View Post
Part of why they reject the offer is because our offer comes late. We can act like not getting good local players is not a big deal, but our better years have been when we had local players leading our roster.
From what I have read, Frank usually starts "recruiting" players long before he offers them a scholarship. He wants to try to find out if they would be a good fit for his program first. That may not be the way some other coaches do it, but its the way Frank does it.

SC players have been going to schools other than USC for many years, even though previous USC coaches have tried to recruit them. The reason can't be that USC isn't trying to recruit them. USC tries, but they prefer to go elsewhere.
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Old 01-24-2018, 12:44 PM   #28
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by CockNJersey View Post
Yes, you have summarized the problem. We need to fix it.

If you think making an offer to player is all there is to recruiting, you are sorely mistaken.
How do you fix it? Its been happening for 40 years, with several different USC coaches.
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Old 01-24-2018, 12:49 PM   #29
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

It seems like the AAU system is the main difference between football recruiting and basketball recruiting.

Do we have similar facilities to the blue blood programs? I don't think we do....I remember a video of a dorm at UK where all the bball players lived (and to be sure an amount of regular students so it didn't run afoul of NCAA rules). Perhaps a Football Ops Center/Practice facility but for basketball would help, and/or maybe a football-style recruiting office would pay dividends.
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Old 01-24-2018, 01:25 PM   #30
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

It is not just a South Carolina problem. The top kids from all states have been going to the big programs for as long as I can remember. It is just the way college basketball is. Pitino got them to come to Louisville because he was cheating his ass off. I really don't see any way you keep the big ones from getting their pick and the rest of the schools are left to fight for leftovers. Duke got the top 3 kids in the country because they are Duke, just the way it is. I understand what you are saying, but saying we need to fix it? That sounds good, but not sure how you go about doing that.
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Old 01-24-2018, 02:27 PM   #31
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by longhaul View Post
It is not just a South Carolina problem. The top kids from all states have been going to the big programs for as long as I can remember. It is just the way college basketball is. Pitino got them to come to Louisville because he was cheating his ass off. I really don't see any way you keep the big ones from getting their pick and the rest of the schools are left to fight for leftovers. Duke got the top 3 kids in the country because they are Duke, just the way it is. I understand what you are saying, but saying we need to fix it? That sounds good, but not sure how yowellu go about doing that.
Well, you’re right in the sense that it may not be a fixable problem. But it’s a problem that has to be fixed if we ever want to be consistently successful.

The past 2 teams we’ve had that have been very good we’re last years team and the 96-97 team. We’ve had some ok teams in between, but nothing worth writing home about.

Who were the catalysts on those teams?
96-97 team:
Melvin Watson - in-state recruit
BJ McKie - in-state recruit
Larry Davis - in-state recruit (who we initially lost to UNC but picked up on transfer and was pivotal to our success, which further proves the point.)

2016-2017:
Sindarius Thornwell - in-state recruit
PJ Dozier - in-state recruit
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Old 01-24-2018, 02:43 PM   #32
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

It doesn't matter if we aren't getting the best players from South Carolina? I guess not if we are getting players just as good from elsewhere, but for the most part they aren't quite as good. If we can't even keep players from our own state to stay home it isn't going to be any easier trying to get top players to leave their homes to come here to play. We don't have the pull that teams like Duke and Kentucky do. Luckily we have a good coach that doesn't need the very best players to put together a good team. Win more games and we will get better players. Right now we are recover from a ton of talent leaving the team. It's a rebuilding year because of that, but it's an anomaly in my opinion.
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Old 01-24-2018, 03:17 PM   #33
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

I don't think that anyone is saying not to recruit the state, and recruit it hard. And I believe that we are doing that, and have had some success. We currently are in good shape for multiple players from the deep 2019 class.

But we had a team that should have made the dance two years ago, with all foreign players on the front line. Last year we made it with Silva and Kotsar providing the inside muscle, Canadian Duane Notice as our on-ball defender, and New Yorker Rah Felton providing the spark down the stretch in the Final Four run.

It is similar to Football recruiting success. Recruit the home base first, then look wherever else there is talent that you have a chance to get.

But don't throw up your hands if you miss in-state, like we did this year in football with XT, Wynn, Belk and Kendrick. Neither Boom nor Frank are doing that - they are finding guys elsewhere that can improve the team.
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:31 PM   #34
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

I dont know what this says either way about instate guys but frank has signed two instate TOP caliber players and they led us to a final four.
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:33 PM   #35
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

Fan perception probably has a lot to do with the top guys leaving for the blue bloods. In fact, it may be the main factor These guys want to go somewhere where they'll be showcased. That's just not gonna happen at USC. Basketball will always be second fiddle to football. For the majority of the fan base, basketball at its peak will still come a distant second to football at its low point.

They want to go where basketball is the main game in town.
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:03 PM   #36
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by thekob View Post
It seems like the AAU system is the main difference between football recruiting and basketball recruiting.

Do we have similar facilities to the blue blood programs? I don't think we do....I remember a video of a dorm at UK where all the bball players lived (and to be sure an amount of regular students so it didn't run afoul of NCAA rules). Perhaps a Football Ops Center/Practice facility but for basketball would help, and/or maybe a football-style recruiting office would pay dividends.
I agree; I don't think our facilities are good enough. We should have built a dedicated MBB and WBB practice facility instead of cobbling together something between the Coliseum and Volleyball facility.
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:32 PM   #37
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

I blame it on some of our own fans and even some of our players.

Anyone else know the "fans" that love the Gamecocks in football and Duke/UNC/KY/Kansas in basketball?

Seriously, when your own fans dont support all of your teams, it can be pretty telling.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:37 PM   #38
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

Frank's bent over backwards for in state high school coaches and the AAU teams in the state. That's a fact.

The problem is that the perception that high school kids have due to their high school coaches and AAU coaches who come from a different generation of South Carolina basketball is that you have to go out of state to have success in college basketball and in the NBA.

That's the miracle of PJ (who was heavily predicted to go to Louisville out of HS) and Sin coming here. That people in this state really push the high level kids who are in this state to go to out of state schools
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:33 PM   #39
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

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Originally Posted by CockNJersey View Post
Fan perception probably has a lot to do with the top guys leaving for the blue bloods. In fact, it may be the main factor These guys want to go somewhere where they'll be showcased. That's just not gonna happen at USC. Basketball will always be second fiddle to football. For the majority of the fan base, basketball at its peak will still come a distant second to football at its low point.

They want to go where basketball is the main game in town.
How's that showcase working out for Seventh Woods? Your odds of being the featured player at a blue blood school with three to five other one and dones, are pretty tough.
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Old 01-24-2018, 11:25 PM   #40
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Default Re: Sobering stat for basketball recruiting

Ok so drunkering fact for bball fans of USC (is that the opposite of sobering?)

Anyways 2-1 against 3 straight in conference top 25 teams!!!!

Lost to 1 because Silva sat too damn much!

Eat that stat hatas!
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