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Old 01-04-2018, 02:22 PM   #21
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by Legalman72 View Post
Not apples to apples. Not even close. Too many variables to list. Good start by both.
I agree.

The East was not "down" when Spurrier took over.
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:22 PM   #22
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by Dizzy01 View Post
Their prior coaching histories really aren't comparable. Spurrier had past success to look at and Muschamp does not have that same resume.

Everyone talks about how crappy the team was that Muschamp inherited yet at the same time people talk about how many upper classmen the defenses is losing and how the best players on offense are holdovers from the prior staff.

I will agree that the QB spot was a train wreck created by the prior staff but when some of your top players are juniors and seniors and you've been here two years you didn't inherit garbage. The guys may have been poorly coached but they weren't void of talent.
truth.
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:36 PM   #23
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

One advantage Muschamp had over Spurrier was the knowledge that you can win big at SC. They both followed a legendary coach, but Spurrier proved it was possible to win big. That probably explains why Muschamp has been able to turn it around so much faster.
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

Spurrier had a tougher road. The combination of a bad team coupled with a very spotty first year recruiting class put him in a hole.

Muschamp inherited Sawyer, Fenton, Lammons, Smith, Baw, Hurst, Samuel, Bailey and Moore. All very talented but needed direction.

He also hit a home run in his first class, with Bentley, Davis, Dowdle, Edwards, Brunson and Wonnum.

Thats 15 very good players..Spurrier just didnt have that in year 2..Spurrier set the table and Muschamp ran with it. The Gamecocks are poised to be big winners.
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:55 PM   #25
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

I like Muschamp. I thought he inherited a mess at UF and think he has done well so far with a team without a lot of depth when he started.

But he's been here only two years. His second year at UF was his best.

Spurrier's 2006 team faced a much stronger SEC. Five teams that they played in the SEC were ranked in the final AP poll. Clemson was ranked when SC beat them at Clemson. If Succup doesn't miss a few kicks, including a last second one at UF, UF doesn't even play for the NC, which they won in a major league butt kicking of OSU.

This site ranks this year's team as 15th all-time. The 2006 team is 12th.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...outh-carolina/

Spurrier was an innovator who won everywhere (USFL, Duke, FL, SC) except for the pathetic Skins. He is my favorite coach in any sport ever. His mistake was hanging around 1+ years too long, which he has admitted. Be grateful you had him.
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:56 PM   #26
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

Similar, but different. Both inherited a mess, but Muschamp benefited from the fact that it's been proven that you can win at South Carolina. In 2005, the fans and administration accepted mediocrity both with the team and with the program. There is a much higher expectation now, and Muschamp benefits from that. It also helps that Muschamp is pretty young in his career - everyone knew that this was Spurrier's last stop. Neither situation is good or bad - just different.
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Old 01-04-2018, 03:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

Spurrier's first season everyone was still playing 11-game regular seasons. Had there been a 12th reg. season game, most likely we'd gone 8-5 in 2005 like we did in 2006, even with the bowl loss, and Spurrier would have the lone record for most wins his first 2 seasons.

And we won 6 games in the year prior to Spurrier coming in, but he had to run off a large number of players from that team his first season, and suspend our top RB Boyd for the 2005 season.

Spurrier's main problems early on were OL issues which led to rushing offense issues, and his struggles with being able to develop our QBs to consistently make sound decisions throughout an entire season. The RB and WR talent was also a bit thin: we had some good studs in Rice, McKinley, Boyd, etc. but the depth behind them didn't develop into consistent producers.

The defenses were solid in general, and in some areas were conference elite. Under Nix we had stellar passing defenses but poor rushing defenses. Bringing in Johnson at least got the defense more sound across the board, and bringing in Elliott and going to the Read Option helped solidify the offense. USC didn't average north of 30 pts per game until 2010 - Spurrier's 6th season at USC - and didn't average north of 400 yds per game until 2013, his 9th season, and only accomplished that twice during his time at USC, in 2013 and 2014...
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Old 01-04-2018, 03:46 PM   #28
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by sc455 View Post
Spurrier set the table...
Then proceeded to flip the table over, smash it with an ax and destroy all the dishes.

I’ve heard of short memories, but some of you must be completely delusional not to remember just how pathetically awful we were in 2015. Awful would be an understatement.

Spurrier deserves a ton of credit for all the good things he did through 2013 and all the horrible things he did through 2015. But he deserves no credit whatsoever for what the program has accomplished the past 2 seasons.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:31 PM   #29
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by CockNJersey View Post
Spurrier took over a 6 win team. It took him 6 seasons to achieve 9 wins. His first two seasons saw us go 15-10 overall, 7-5 and 8-5 (5-3 and 3-5 in SEC play). Notably, we didn’t get back to a winning record in conference play until his 6th season.

Muschamp took over a 3 win team and got us to 9 wins in his second season. His first two seasons saw us go 15-11 overall 6-7 and 9-4 (3-5 and 5-3 in SEC play).

In my opinion, the turnaround by Champ has been far more significant. He walked into a horrendous situation. Time will tell if the success is surtainable, as we know we aren’t going to add 3 wins every year, but in perspective of what Spurrier did, it’s pretty remarkable.
Cant say that because Spurrier left a foundation. The 3-9 season was a perfect storm disaster. 2014 was an excellent offense but massive losses on defense. So many big recruits just didnt “hit”. Muschamp deserves enormous credit BUT he did inherit a program with a solid foundation. Some Spurrier era guys like Debo and Skai helped out tremendously.

USC was in a deeper hole when Muschamp took over. But the hole had some stepping stones built by Spurrier, and Holtz, that enabled a quicker rise out.

The biggest turnaround is still Holtz taking us from 0-22 to beating Ohio State in bowl 1 year before they won the NC.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by CockNJersey View Post
Then proceeded to flip the table over, smash it with an ax and destroy all the dishes.

I’ve heard of short memories, but some of you must be completely delusional not to remember just how pathetically awful we were in 2015. Awful would be an understatement.

Spurrier deserves a ton of credit for all the good things he did through 2013 and all the horrible things he did through 2015. But he deserves no credit whatsoever for what the program has accomplished the past 2 seasons.
You’re wrong. 1 awful season isnt “flipping the tables”. Its a bad season, recruits didnt pan out. Auburn went 3-9 or something in 2012 then won SEC in 2013.

Art Briles flipped tables. Joe Paterno flipped tables.

Spurrier missed on many recruits his last 2 years and got old and complacent.

We’ve been to a bowl game 6/7 years and won 5. Program never collapsed, it just fell in a big sink hole and now climbed out.
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Old 01-04-2018, 05:18 PM   #31
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

Spurrier left the place a mess. However, Muschamp has all but cleaned it up. Not only is the culture better, but we have players and staff that have bought in. We have a coach who is determined to win championships and create a legacy. We aren't 100% fixed, but we are in a damn good position.

Yes, you can blame him for 2015 and the first half of 2016, but he is the reason we expect to have at the least an 8 win season every year. His time here helped the rebuild of South Carolina football under Will Muschamp happen much sooner than originally expected. Spurrier was also the first USC coach I remember watching and his teams are what I grew up on, so I guess there's that too.
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:14 PM   #32
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

All you have to do is look at the program's identity and literal footprint prior to 2005 and what it was in 2015 to realize that Spurrier's personality is embedded in "New Carolina" and that buildings literally had to be built, and donors had to be enticed to put more money into the program to bring it up to the SEC standard.

Say what you will about Spurrier's approach to recruiting, practice and coaching the last three years he was here, BUT, what he did for the program overall to SET UP the future coaches and players for success is amazing and underrated.
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Muschamp said he doesn't have a 3 year or 5 year plan, his plan is to win now and decisions will be based on winning now.

Muschamp believes that recruiting within a five-hour radius of USC, "we can recruit good enough players to win the East every year."
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:45 PM   #33
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

Dude, we had not beat Florida since 1935. They had urbanmutha****ing meyer, UT still had fulmer, we could NOT beat them. Enter ball coach and they all start falling and shitting themselves. Including UGA and Clem which other than titles is all that matters.

Just what he did to the stadium alone....my god, it was so nondescript that it was a great choice to film football movies before him.
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:49 PM   #34
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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I would say that Spurrier inherited a worse "program", but Muschamp inherited a worse "team". Spurrier's tenure elevated that program to the point where Muschamp inherited a better program overall. However, thanks to SOS, 'Champ has had to rebuild the team from the ground up.

Now, as also mentioned above, the SECe was a bit stronger when Spurrier came onto the scene vs when Muschamp did.

It's a tough comparison due to those variables. I will say though, if CWM can get the OC/offense figured out and on track, in the end, he can easily be a better coach here overall than SOS.........
Good points.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:07 PM   #35
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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IMO.....Spurrier took over a "Program" that was much worse than the one Champ has been saddled with. And believe me, it pains me to say that.
Steve had a ton of talent to work with. Hell, he had 2 qb’s to start with, Muschamp had to recruit his.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:19 PM   #36
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

Ton of talent. Jesus, they didn't even have bodies for an OL. We had to start like Antonio Heffner against Auburn when they were like #6 and HBC still almost beat them. There were no lammons, fentons, moores, etc and the culture sucked, guys didn't even come to workouts. But the cabinet wasn't bare....it never is...that is booshit. Even fat bradstard left a few players.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:21 PM   #37
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

Spurrier had Blake Mitchell and Syvelle Newton that first year, and utilized them quite well.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:34 PM   #38
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Ton of talent. Jesus, they didn't even have bodies for an OL. We had to start like Antonio Heffner against Auburn when they were like #6 and HBC still almost beat them. There were no lammons, fentons, moores, etc and the culture sucked, guys didn't even come to workouts. But the cabinet wasn't bare....it never is...that is booshit. Even fat bradstard left a few players.
Lammons and Fenton....Johnathan Joseph, Captain Munnerlyn, Fred Bennet?
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:43 PM   #39
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Johnathan Joseph, Captain Munnerlyn, Fred Bennet?
Munnerlyn signed in 06. Good job HBC. Now compare the lines of scrimmage.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:48 PM   #40
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Munnerlyn signed in 06. Good job HBC. Now compare the lines of scrimmage.
I believe he got to coach Goddard and Levey when he first got in. Now he did bring in John Hunt which certainly didn't help matters there.
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