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Old 01-04-2018, 06:56 PM   #41
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
I agree.

The East was not "down" when Spurrier took over.
Totally agree....things were quite different.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:12 PM   #42
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by LegalCock View Post
Munnerlyn signed in 06. Good job HBC. Now compare the lines of scrimmage.
Looks like I was looking at the 2006 roster. Trade Cap for Ko Simpson...
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:25 PM   #43
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

The East was down after Fulmer quit and Spurrier had a lot to do with it.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:29 PM   #44
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

Spurrier came in and changed the athletic department. He was the beginning of the culture change at South Carolina and the fuel behind the new facilities and upgrades and all of that. Will Muschamp becuase of Spurrier only has to worry about rebuilding a talent pool. Spurrier helped build a culture and program that had never been built.
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:38 PM   #45
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
I agree.

The East was not "down" when Spurrier took over.
Florida was running through the East at the beginning of Spurrier's time at South Carolina. Then 2010 came and everything changed. The East has not been as consistent as the West in the same time period.
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:54 PM   #46
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by robgusc76 View Post
Spurrier came in and changed the athletic department. He was the beginning of the culture change at South Carolina and the fuel behind the new facilities and upgrades and all of that. Will Muschamp becuase of Spurrier only has to worry about rebuilding a talent pool. Spurrier helped build a culture and program that had never been built.
I also think the success of the Baseball 2010 team helped the change of culture.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:34 PM   #47
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by CockNJersey View Post
Spurrier took over a 6 win team. It took him 6 seasons to achieve 9 wins. His first two seasons saw us go 15-10 overall, 7-5 and 8-5 (5-3 and 3-5 in SEC play). Notably, we didnít get back to a winning record in conference play until his 6th season.

Muschamp took over a 3 win team and got us to 9 wins in his second season. His first two seasons saw us go 15-11 overall 6-7 and 9-4 (3-5 and 5-3 in SEC play).

In my opinion, the turnaround by Champ has been far more significant. He walked into a horrendous situation. Time will tell if the success is surtainable, as we know we arenít going to add 3 wins every year, but in perspective of what Spurrier did, itís pretty remarkable.
Muschamp inherited much less talent than HBC.
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Old 01-05-2018, 08:26 AM   #48
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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This is a well reasoned response but nothing that cocknjersey has posted make me think he's likely to care about it.
That's pretty much what it boils down to
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:17 AM   #49
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by CockNJersey View Post
What of value did Muschamp inherit? Not talent, for sure. See the recruiting commons below.

Not a good coaching staff, thatís for sure. Even by Spurrierís own words, he didnít put enough effort into biluildog a quality staff.

No recruiting infrastructure. This is well documented. Recruiting is the lifeblood of a program. Spurrier has apologized for putting together talent-deficient teams towards the end.

So, little or no talent in players or coaches and no recruiting infrastructure. Spurrier did help in upgrading our facilities, but even those were middle of the pack when he left.

So how did Champ inherit a better program?
Did you actually visit our facilities prior to Spurrier and know how drastically different they are today?
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:39 AM   #50
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by robgusc76 View Post
Spurrier came in and changed the athletic department. He was the beginning of the culture change at South Carolina and the fuel behind the new facilities and upgrades and all of that. Will Muschamp becuase of Spurrier only has to worry about rebuilding a talent pool. Spurrier helped build a culture and program that had never been built.
I think that Lou really started it. Those back to back Outback Bowl wins over Ohio State was a level of achievement that we had never seen. Ryan Brewer anyone? Sadly there was no investment in facilities. The tater debacle followed by the brawl showed that he had lost much of the team. Muschamp should take note. Three embarrassments in a row to the team from the upstate should send any coach packing.

SOS saw our long dormant potential though. Single handedly through his will he elevated the play on the field, the expectations of the fans, and the quality of our facilities. Lou frequently bemoaned not having the stadium adjacent to campus. Spurrier actually did something about them. Without him we would still be cellar dwellers.
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:50 AM   #51
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

From a talent standpoint, Spurrier took over a better team, but it was a rotten program.
Talent was here, it just needed guidance and coaching, and the loss of some bad eggs.

Muschamp took over a team that was a better program, but the talent level was much worse than what Spurrier had.

Also, the SEC was much different when Spurrier took over. At that time, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia and Florida were firing on all cylinders.

Now, the SEC is down from what it was.
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:57 AM   #52
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Did you actually visit our facilities prior to Spurrier and know how drastically different they are today?
I fully acknowled that spurrier aided in upgrading our facilities. But the rest of the teams in the league are always upgrading as well. As such, we’ve more or less kept pace with be rest of the league. We’re probably about middle of the pack, facilities wise. We certainly lag behind UF, UT, UGA, Bama, Auburn, LSU, A&M. While our facilities are upgraded, our position in the conference hasn’t changed much.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:20 AM   #53
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by CockNJersey View Post
I fully acknowled that spurrier aided in upgrading our facilities. But the rest of the teams in the league are always upgrading as well. As such, weíve more or less kept pace with be rest of the league. Weíre probably about middle of the pack, facilities wise. We certainly lag behind UF, UT, UGA, Bama, Auburn, LSU, A&M. While our facilities are upgraded, our position in the conference hasnít changed much.
I've never heard anyone talk about how great UF's facilities are. There was the rumor that butter teeth got run out of town for complaining about the lack of money being invested in them in fact.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:25 AM   #54
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

I look at it this way...

Spurrier brought the enthusiasm to a whole new level with our fans.

Hyman then demanded that the fans/long time donors put some equity into the football & athletic programs to raise our facilities up to an average SEC program.

The BCS era ushered in the facilities/arms race across the SEC, and we were busy putting all of our eggs into a new basketball arena instead of building a Dodie like facility or football facilities....you can argue with Mike McGee on that one.

Spurrier brought the promise of Offense to a program & fan base that was starved for it after Holtz's 3 yds & a pile of dust philosophy.

Whether Spurrier had more talent than Muschamp is not the real issue, imo...both took what they inherited and took both teams to back-to-back bowls and 8-9 wins in Season 2.

Spurrier/Hyman/Tanner saw the writing on the wall...better facilities lead to better recruiting, which lead to more wins...simple as that.

Muschamp is obviously benefiting from that current philosophy within the Ath Dept. and brings a very capable recruiting staff to the table.

Spurrier had the SEC & a 80,000 seat stadium to work with starting off...

Muschamp has the SEC money, improved W-B, Dodie, Indoor Practice Bldg, a more popular AD when it comes to passing around the tin cup to donors, better recruiting budgets...and a recent #1 NFL draft pick to sell to recruits.

With all that said...Spurrier did a better job in '05-'06 turning the program's status & perception around than Muschamp has done these first 2 seasons...and I'm really impressed with what Boom has done (minus the Roper hire/fire).

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Old 01-08-2018, 11:34 AM   #55
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

-See the campus athletic facilities in '08 vs in '16. Spurrier was working with cold war era stuff, while Muschamp and co. have the latest and greatest in housing, dining, training, practice fields, not to mention the soft infrastructure that goes into helping the kids academically. And a badass tailgate expansion. Spurrier was the catalyst behind the money that came in to make it all happen.

Muschamp knew he was going into a great situation with less pressure than other SEC destinations. I have no clue on planet earth why SOS took the Carolina job seeing he knew exactly how hard it was going to be.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:34 AM   #56
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by CockNJersey View Post
Weíre probably about middle of the pack, facilities wise.
You're guessing which means you don't know, and most of your other comments are guesses as well.

There is no apples-apples comp.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:38 AM   #57
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

Have you seen our facilities? Just because they aren't #1 out of 100 does not mean they are not a 9-10/10.

and then there is this.
http://expandingourvision.com/football/

sns for the double negative.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:44 AM   #58
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

Spurrier was handed the keys to a broken-down Chevy Nova sitting on cinderblocks. It had potential, and the previous owner had tinkered with it and got it running, but then let the wheels fall off.

Muschamp got a Honda Accord. Nothing flashy, but enough to it to get in onto the road.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:48 AM   #59
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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I've never heard anyone talk about how great UF's facilities are. There was the rumor that butter teeth got run out of town for complaining about the lack of money being invested in them in fact.
The interesting back story to all of that is UF wanted to improve facilities while SOS was there, he told them they didnít need to spend the money.
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:42 PM   #60
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Default Re: Spurrier vs Muschamp: apples to apples?

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Originally Posted by Flameout12 View Post
You're guessing which means you don't know, and most of your other comments are guesses as well.

There is no apples-apples comp.
I don't think he ever intended to do a fair comparison. This was a thinly veiled attempt at running down Spurrier, because the OP doesn't understand that you can appreciate what SOS did AND what Champ is doing.
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