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Old 05-16-2017, 11:10 PM   #41
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

The QB isn't playing 1 vs 11. The QB still needs to be protected even if it is his job to read the defense and take care of the ball etc..., that is what those large lumps of meat in front of him on the line of scrimmage are supposed to be there for. They haven't been doing that much in recent years. I don't want to hear the excuse, "well we are playing good defenses." Okay? Well, that is why we need a GOOD offensive line here! These guys had problems blocking against bad defenses even. It seems like some want to make every single excuse they can think of under the sun for this offensive line. Nearly every game for the last 4-5 years I have watched those guys closely. They are weak and they do nothing but try to play pattycake with the defenders. I am over it. Wolford needs to completely change this around. Don't just try to feel up the players and distract them, get up there and knock a defender on his ass every once in a damn while!
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:03 AM   #42
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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Stay healthy and hope Wolford gets the max out his group.
...Yup...Dead spot on call right here...Simple and straight to the point..
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:14 AM   #43
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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The QB isn't playing 1 vs 11. The QB still needs to be protected even if it is his job to read the defense and take care of the ball etc..., that is what those large lumps of meat in front of him on the line of scrimmage are supposed to be there for. They haven't been doing that much in recent years. I don't want to hear the excuse, "well we are playing good defenses." Okay? Well, that is why we need a GOOD offensive line here! These guys had problems blocking against bad defenses even. It seems like some want to make every single excuse they can think of under the sun for this offensive line. Nearly every game for the last 4-5 years I have watched those guys closely. They are weak and they do nothing but try to play pattycake with the defenders. I am over it. Wolford needs to completely change this around. Don't just try to feel up the players and distract them, get up there and knock a defender on his ass every once in a damn while!
Last year, we played two true Freshmen and a walk-on at QB. Our three main receivers were a Sophomore that had barely played due to injuries, a walk-on TE that had been out of football for three years and had played WR the year before, and a true Freshman. At RB, we had a true Freshman replace an undersized RS Freshman.

We also had a talented and veteran O Line that battled through injuries and were a solid group by year's end.

But everyone wants to blame the O Line for the Offensive woes. Not the QB that has to read the D, adjust the blocking schemes and check out of plays. Not the QB when he holds onto the ball too long or hesitates to make the throw. Not the WRs that don't get open or run a bad route. Not the TE or RB that whiffs on picking up blitzes.

It is not excuses, it is reality. Just like the O Line suddenly seemed to get better when we got some talented (but still very young) skill position guys on the field, added experience at the skill positions will suddenly make the O Line look even better.

But they have been good all along. Worry about Bentley and his buds at the skill positions learning what they need to know - that is the real ? for this year.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:31 AM   #44
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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Yes. I think folks are making too much of them losing Watson. Yes, losing the best player in your program's history is always a big deal. But they are still loaded at QB and the other skill positions. There will certainly be a drop-off from Watson to whoever starts for Clemson this year, but that says more about Watson's talent level than anything else.
Their drop off at QB will be significant. Watson was in NY twice for the Heisman voting.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:47 AM   #45
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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Gotcha. The problem against UF and Clemson was the O Line. Not a true Freshman QB "that should have been a Senior in high school" playing in his 4th and 6th games, against aggressive Top Ten defenses on the road.

One more time - Bentley spent the Spring learning to read defenses, change blocking schemes, hit hot reads, change the calls. If he knew how to do those things prior to the Clemson and UF games, you would have been amazed at how much better the O Line looked.

When the Offense is clicking, people talk about how good the skill guys are. When the Offense struggles, it is automatically the O Line's fault. Even if the O Line is playing fine.
Bold, really good comparison between last year to this year. Of course, Wolford and our scheme this year are going to help a lot as well.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the LT competition at camp this year between Young, Hutcherson and Daley. I saw yesterday where Park and Helms have won both the guard positions (at least going into summer camp).
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:23 AM   #46
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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Their drop off at QB will be significant. Watson was in NY twice for the Heisman voting.
People always come back with the "elite recruiting" thing for Clemson, and use it as justification for them being better than a UGA or UF or UT.

Well, guess what? UF and UGA recruit better than Clemson - it's true, look at the composite rankings for the last four years - and UT is in a dead heat with Clemson. And a lot of Clemson's high ranking comes from QB and WR.

The other variable is experience, and Clemson returns the fewest starters of any of the four teams. And the players that are gone are their stars - best TE, QB, WR, O Lineman, 4 First Team All-ACC defenders, including the leader of the D. So less experience overall, and in particular at the key positions.

UT loses their Offensive stars but Clemson loses even more stars. And we have Clemson at home, UT is on the road. It is not unrealistic to think that UT will be at least as tough, and the other two, UF and UGA, will be tougher. Especially UGA on the road, with their entire D coming back, plus their two RBs and QB. The only thing in our favor there is Kirby Smart.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:26 AM   #47
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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Their drop off at QB will be significant. Watson was in NY twice for the Heisman voting.
No duh.

I acknowledged there will be a drop-off. But when you're starting with the one of the best clutch performers in recent history, you can have a significant drop-off and still be very, very good at QB.

Folks are mistakenly assuming (hoping, really) that a drop-off at QB means Clemson is going to suck at that position. They still have a lot of talent lined up at QB, with even more help on the way next year. I expect their season will look somewhat like 2014 when Watson was just coming onto the scene.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:29 AM   #48
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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People always come back with the "elite recruiting" thing for Clemson, and use it as justification for them being better than a UGA or UF or UT.

Well, guess what? UF and UGA recruit better than Clemson - it's true, look at the composite rankings for the last four years - and UT is in a dead heat with Clemson. And a lot of Clemson's high ranking comes from QB and WR.

The other variable is experience, and Clemson returns the fewest starters of any of the four teams. And the players that are gone are their stars - best TE, QB, WR, O Lineman, 4 First Team All-ACC defenders, including the leader of the D. So less experience overall, and in particular at the key positions.

UT loses their Offensive stars but Clemson loses even more stars. And we have Clemson at home, UT is on the road. It is not unrealistic to think that UT will be at least as tough, and the other two, UF and UGA, will be tougher. Especially UGA on the road, with their entire D coming back, plus their two RBs and QB. The only thing in our favor there is Kirby Smart.
Is the point of your post that Clemson has a very good coaching staff??
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:34 AM   #49
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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First off, they didn't lose just Watson. They are replacing 90% of their offensive production from last season. You are highly understating the loss of these players and are kidding yourself if you think there won't be a significant drop off.
And you are kidding yourself if you don't look at Clemson's recent recruiting and realize they are deep across the board.

Some Gamecock fans are being delusional about what will go down in Pickens Co. this season. I guess out of necessity, some feel that way. Everyone in the world knows there will be a drop-off. That's no mystery. But, guess what? Even with a drop-off they will still be a double-digit win and top 10 team.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:41 AM   #50
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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Is the point of your post that Clemson has a very good coaching staff??
No. If they were that good at coaching, they would have been doing a lot better pre-Watson, when they also recruited well - and lost 5 straight to us.

The point is that they really aren't elite recruiters, even compared to three teams in our own division (plus Alabama and LSU in the West). They just had a perfect storm - an elite QB, good talent around him, and all playing and developing together for multiple years. As a result, they were able to perform beyond their talent level the last two years. And beat (with a lot of help from the pick play) an Alabama team with better athletes/recruiting.

But Watson and his buds are gone. The replacements will not be as talented, and they sure ain't as experienced. They are starting over in the process, and anyone without urnge glasses can see that. Might be starting over with the 5 straight thing too.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:42 AM   #51
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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You need experience to be a good O Lineman, despite what people in the Upstate think.

Knott has "struggled"? Interesting way to describe a four year starter. He struggled some last year due to two separate injuries, one that kept him from lifting weights in the offseason and left him undersized coming into the season, then another that hobbled him during the season. He will be able to get the needed weight on this offseason and should be full speed.

Helms had a knee injury that kept us from showing how good he is. But as a healthy 5th year Senior and another four year starter, he is very solid.

Stanley won a starting job as a RS Sophomore and then got hurt on the first play of the season. So you define being injured as "underperformed". He is a 4* that has developed nicely and won the starting nod on merit.

Young, by all accounts, was solid at Tackle in the second half of last season. He was a RS Sophomore making his first starts and helped the O Line to gel - and you define that as "struggled". SMDH

Bailey did not get moved because he could not play his position - he got moved because the coaches believe he will be a very good Tackle. If he isn't he can go back to being a very good guard. Either way, he will be an outstanding O Lineman for us this year, and a probable high draft pick.

Size, talent, experience, depth across the board. Not taking RS Freshmen like Hutcherson or a JUCO like Daley.

And you see guys that "struggled" and "underperformed".
We had no push up front last year and the pass protection broke down frequently against better teams. Whether that was due to injuries or coaching or something else remains to be seen. It will help that the skill players have another year in the system. But blocking has to improve this year for us to be successful.

I would like to see Pellage, Camper and/or Hutcherson really come on this year at the tackle position. Add them to Bailey, Stanley and Helms (if they all stay healthy) and the potential is there.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:00 AM   #52
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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No. If they were that good at coaching, they would have been doing a lot better pre-Watson, when they also recruited well - and lost 5 straight to us.

The point is that they really aren't elite recruiters, even compared to three teams in our own division (plus Alabama and LSU in the West). They just had a perfect storm - an elite QB, good talent around him, and all playing and developing together for multiple years. As a result, they were able to perform beyond their talent level the last two years. And beat (with a lot of help from the pick play) and an Alabama team with better athletes.

But Watson and his buds are gone. The replacements will not be as talented, and they sure ain't as experienced. They are starting over in the process, and anyone without urnge glasses can see that. Might be starting over with the 5 straight thing too.
This is pure nonsense. According to you they don't recruit that well and they don't coach that well, yet they somehow just played in two national title games in a row, nearly winning the first and winning the second. The "tough conference" argument falls flat as the ACC outperformed the SEC in bowl season this year. If you don't think Clemson is recruiting at an elite level, then you aren't paying attention at all. They are kicking our a**es in recruiting.

I love ridiculous statements like "Clemson was only good because of A, B,C and X, Y, Z." You could take any team in the history of sports and say "they were only good because of...." Our teams from a few years back were only good because of Shaw, Lattimore, Clowney, etc. The difference: we quit recruiting and our talent dropped of MASSIVELY while Clemson UPPED their recruiting efforts and are now talent-rich across the board. Are any of the QBs they have on the roster as good as Watson? Probably not. But they've still got a ton of talent. Apart from Bama, you could make the "perfect storm" argument for most teams that win a title. That doesn't mean Clemson isn't going to be very, very, very good going forward.

I understand we have to try to look for excuses to explain away Clemson's recent success. It can't be because of recruiting, because, well, it just can't be. It can't be because of coaching, because, well, it just can't be. Blah, blah, blah. We can't admit that Clemson recruits well and coaches well because of the obvious implications. Clemson's good. Clemson's going to be good for a while. They brought in the #2 overall QB in this class. Next year they have the #1 and #2 overall players locked up (and #1 QB). Their 2017 class had only 14 signees, but 3 5* in that group. They already have 2 5* out of 8 total commitments for 2018.

Yes, it took Dabo a while to get things going. You reference the 5 game losing streak to us. As if that means ANYTHING now. Do you know who cares about that now? Only Gamecock fans. Clemson won the Natty. That's all anyone knows. Dabo set about building a great staff and hitting the recruiting trail and he's got a fine-tuned machine going up there. If you want to be naive and stick your head in the sand and pretend it was all a fluke, then be my guest. Doesn't change reality though.

I don't even know why we're talking about Clemson in a thread that's supposed to be about OUR offense, but if folks want to spout nonsense, then I'll call it out.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:24 AM   #53
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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And you are kidding yourself if you don't look at Clemson's recent recruiting and realize they are deep across the board.

Some Gamecock fans are being delusional about what will go down in Pickens Co. this season. I guess out of necessity, some feel that way. Everyone in the world knows there will be a drop-off. That's no mystery. But, guess what? Even with a drop-off they will still be a double-digit win and top 10 team.
I did 247 Composite for the last four years - if I went back five years the numbers would be even worse for Clemson - they were #15 in 2013 and would have been #7 in the SEC. Here is what I got:

Alabama - 1
UGA - 6
LSU - 7
Auburn - 7.75
Tennessee - 10.5
TAMU - 11.5
Clemson - 13.25
Florida 13.25
Ole Miss - 15.5

A tie for 7th in the SEC, but only because Florida had the 21st ranked class in the transition year between McIlwain and Boom, and Ole Miss dropped to 30 last year due to NCAA scrutiny.

And that is talent alone. Before you look into the fact that much of Clemson's star power is concentrated - redundantly - at QB and WR (and they still don't know who their starting QB will be). Or the lack of returning starters/experience. Or the fact that the lost starters are at key positions.

Yeah, I can name at least one Gamecock fan that is being delusional about what will go down in Pickens County this year, and his name is CoastCocky.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:24 AM   #54
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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And you are kidding yourself if you don't look at Clemson's recent recruiting and realize they are deep across the board.

Some Gamecock fans are being delusional about what will go down in Pickens Co. this season. I guess out of necessity, some feel that way. Everyone in the world knows there will be a drop-off. That's no mystery. But, guess what? Even with a drop-off they will still be a double-digit win and top 10 team.
I disagree. Don't be surprised if they start the season 2-3.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:26 AM   #55
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
I did 247 Composite for the last four years - if I went back five years the numbers would be even worse for Clemson - they were #15 in 2013 and would have been #7 in the SEC. Here is what I got:

Alabama - 1
UGA - 6
LSU - 7
Auburn - 7.75
Tennessee - 10.5
TAMU - 11.5
Clemson - 13.25
Florida 13.25
Ole Miss - 15.5

A tie for 7th in the SEC, but only because Florida had the 21st ranked class in the transition year between McIlwain and Boom, and Ole Miss dropped to 30 last year due to NCAA scrutiny.

And that is talent alone. Before you look into the fact that much of Clemson's star power is concentrated - redundantly - at QB and WR (and they still don't know who their starting QB will be). Or the lack of returning starters/experience. Or the fact that the lost starters are at key positions.

Yeah, I can name at least one Gamecock fan that is being delusional about what will go down in Pickens County this year, and his name is CoastCocky.
Good points
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:34 AM   #56
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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I did 247 Composite for the last four years - if I went back five years the numbers would be even worse for Clemson - they were #15 in 2013 and would have been #7 in the SEC. Here is what I got:

Alabama - 1
UGA - 6
LSU - 7
Auburn - 7.75
Tennessee - 10.5
TAMU - 11.5
Clemson - 13.25
Florida 13.25
Ole Miss - 15.5

A tie for 7th in the SEC, but only because Florida had the 21st ranked class in the transition year between McIlwain and Boom, and Ole Miss dropped to 30 last year due to NCAA scrutiny.

And that is talent alone. Before you look into the fact that much of Clemson's star power is concentrated - redundantly - at QB and WR (and they still don't know who their starting QB will be). Or the lack of returning starters/experience. Or the fact that the lost starters are at key positions.

Yeah, I can name at least one Gamecock fan that is being delusional about what will go down in Pickens County this year, and his name is CoastCocky.
Hmmm...so, once again, you're saying it must be that they have superior coaching, right? It's either talent or coaching and you're desperately trying to rule out talent. Or perhaps it's player evaluation/development (which goes back to coaching, really)? If you watched the past 2 title games, Clemson was right there with Bama as far as talent goes. Yet, as you point out, Bama has had higher ranked recruiting classes.

For the record, I didn't say Clemson has been recruiting at an elite level for the past 7 years, or even 4 years. I said they ARE recruiting at an elite level.
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:08 PM   #57
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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But everyone wants to blame the O Line for the Offensive woes.
Last season "everyone" was blaming Kurt Roper. So which is it?
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:10 PM   #58
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

Hopefully, Bentley won't have to run to the sideline to get the plays at our away games in loud stadiums.
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:12 PM   #59
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

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Originally Posted by CoastCocky View Post
Hmmm...so, once again, you're saying it must be that they have superior coaching, right? It's either talent or coaching and you're desperately trying to rule out talent. Or perhaps it's player evaluation/development (which goes back to coaching, really)? If you watched the past 2 title games, Clemson was right there with Bama as far as talent goes. Yet, as you point out, Bama has had higher ranked recruiting classes.

For the record, I didn't say Clemson has been recruiting at an elite level for the past 7 years, or even 4 years. I said they ARE recruiting at an elite level.
I got you, you cleared it up.

Clemson has not been recruiting at an elite level in the past- they would be tied for #7 in our 14 team conference, middle of the pack - but they are now, for 2018. Which means that those elite level recruits are not in school now and playing in 2017, which is what we are talking about - right?

So how am I overlooking the impact of players that are not on campus yet?
And how many of the upcoming elite class have actually signed? And how many could go elsewhere if Clemson screws the pooch in 2017?

I will wait on you to clarify. Again - the elite recruiting would put you in a tie for #7 in the SEC in terms of talent. And Clemson has less experience returning than all seven.
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:12 PM   #60
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Default Re: 247 thinks highly of our offense this season

Yeah I'm with Coast on this one. You don't win a natty by recruiting and coaching poorly. One (or both) has to be good. Also, rankings aren't everything. Coaches want the guys that fit their systems, stars be damned. Clemson is pulling in top talent and their coaches are getting the most out of them.
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