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Old 10-11-2018, 04:24 PM   #101
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Woah, hold on...you think our coaches offensive play calling is based on what they think the fans want to see?? Man thatís...some kinda theory. Our fans want wins and I donít think they really care how the team gets it. Also, I donít think our coaches are really concerned as to what the fans want to see.

One, if you actually look at the numbers the total rush attempts to total pass attempts are pretty balanced. Two, they like to control the tempo. That means they want to be able to go fast when they want and slow it down when they want based on how the game is going.
HAHAHAHA. Man, some people are crazy.
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:45 PM   #102
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Woah, hold on...you think our coaches offensive play calling is based on what they think the fans want to see?? Man thatís...some kinda theory. Our fans want wins and I donít think they really care how the team gets it. Also, I donít think our coaches are really concerned as to what the fans want to see.

One, if you actually look at the numbers the total rush attempts to total pass attempts are pretty balanced. Two, they like to control the tempo. That means they want to be able to go fast when they want and slow it down when they want based on how the game is going.
You know that if the team ran the ball 90% of the time that many of the fans would say they were "boring". They would. Most fans don't want to win 14-10. They want to win, yes, but they want to win 34-31, or 41-38. To them, that is exciting football! Going fast is designed to score as quickly as possible. There is no other reason for it. Its all about putting points on the scoreboard, which is what most fans love and want.
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:56 PM   #103
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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You know that if the team ran the ball 90% of the time that many of the fans would say they were "boring". They would. Most fans don't want to win 14-10. They want to win, yes, but they want to win 34-31, or 41-38. To them, that is exciting football! Going fast is designed to score as quickly as possible. There is no other reason for it. Its all about putting points on the scoreboard, which is what most fans love and want.
That's fine. But coaches and players do just want to win. Ultimately, that's what fans want too. I'd take a 10-7 win against UK over a 56-49 loss.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:03 PM   #104
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Eh...Rico was a RB converted to QB for his HS team because they needed a quality athlete there. In his senior highlight film, he doesn't even throw the ball once. So this is a much different situation than Joyner.
Sorry, but you are completely wrong. His stats for his senior year were:
90 completions out of 140 attempts for 1,211 yards and 10 TDs as a QB. That is quite a bit different from the picture you're painting. Using a highlight film as a basis for fact is like only looking at salads in a buffet line and saying it's all healthy.

QB is basically all he played. He only played in one game as a Jr. so, no, he wasn't really a converted RB in HS.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:05 PM   #105
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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You know that if the team ran the ball 90% of the time that many of the fans would say they were "boring". They would. Most fans don't want to win 14-10. They want to win, yes, but they want to win 34-31, or 41-38. To them, that is exciting football! Going fast is designed to score as quickly as possible. There is no other reason for it. Its all about putting points on the scoreboard, which is what most fans love and want.
The coaches donít call plays and run their offense because itís what the fans want. They believe they have the personell to control the tempo. They run up tempo because up tempo means more plays and thatís what Muschamp wants. Their goal is to win games. If they lose scoring 45 points a game theyíre still going to eventually lose their job if they donít start winning.

And this is just me, but the history of SC football doesnít exactly give our fans reason to turn their nose up at ANY win we get.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:10 PM   #106
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Sorry, but you are completely wrong. His stats for his senior year were:
90 completions out of 140 attempts for 1,211 yards and 10 TDs as a QB. That is quite a bit different from the picture you're painting. Using a highlight film as a basis for fact is like only looking at salads in a buffet line and saying it's all healthy.

QB is basically all he played. He only played in one game as a Jr. so, no, he wasn't really a converted RB in HS.
That's 14 attempts per game. If that includes playoffs, it's even less. Meanwhile, Hilinski, a real QB, is throwing 35 times per game.

I'm saying he is a RB build who was stuck at QB because they needed somebody there.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:37 PM   #107
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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That's 14 attempts per game. If that includes playoffs, it's even less. Meanwhile, Hilinski, a real QB, is throwing 35 times per game.

I'm saying he is a RB build who was stuck at QB because they needed somebody there.
What does Hilinski have to do with it? Dak is a whole lot more like Rico than Hilinski in terms of his build, athleticism, and skill sets. Dak's first year HS stats almost mirror those of Rico: 96 of 153 for 1,646 yds. They both only played QB. The inference here has been you can't convert a QB to RB, and that is simply not true.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:42 PM   #108
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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What does Hilinski have to do with it? Dak is a whole lot more like Rico than Hilinski in terms of his build, athleticism, and skill sets. Dak's first year HS stats almost mirror those of Rico: 96 of 153 for 1,646 yds. They both only played QB. The inference here has been you can't convert a QB to RB, and that is simply not true.
I don't know much about how Dowdle's HS games played out, but I don't think Joyner was playing a lot of QB in the second half, if I recall.

And I didn't say no RB could be converted to a QB. I'm just saying I'm not sure Dak has the durability to play RB in the SEC, while Rico fits the bill of a RB.

EDIT: Maybe Joyner is bigger than he looks. Idk.
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Old 10-11-2018, 06:12 PM   #109
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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I don't know much about how Dowdle's HS games played out, but I don't think Joyner was playing a lot of QB in the second half, if I recall.

And I didn't say no RB could be converted to a QB. I'm just saying I'm not sure Dak has the durability to play RB in the SEC, while Rico fits the bill of a RB.

EDIT: Maybe Joyner is bigger than he looks. Idk.
According to the Roster they are similar in size. Dak is listed at 6'1" 206 lbs while Rico is 215 lbs. Just looking at him Dak looks like a well built athlete to me. IDK how durable he is either, but in our system, what RB is? We have 4 RBs that have played (5 if you count Slade Carroll) so no one gets a ton of carries anyway. So far Rico has gotten the most work with 15 carries/gm. Ty'Son has gotten 10 and AJ only 4. I would say Dak would have to be more durable than AJ who is only 5'10" and 195. But that is just conjecture on my part.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:45 PM   #110
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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According to the Roster they are similar in size. Dak is listed at 6'1" 206 lbs while Rico is 215 lbs. Just looking at him Dak looks like a well built athlete to me. IDK how durable he is either, but in our system, what RB is? We have 4 RBs that have played (5 if you count Slade Carroll) so no one gets a ton of carries anyway. So far Rico has gotten the most work with 15 carries/gm. Ty'Son has gotten 10 and AJ only 4. I would say Dak would have to be more durable than AJ who is only 5'10" and 195. But that is just conjecture on my part.
Hmm. Thatís surprisingly heavy for Dak, Iíll admit. I just didnít see it in his frame when I saw him in the spring game. So honestly, who knows? Maybe he could be a decent RB.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:53 PM   #111
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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The coaches don’t call plays and run their offense because it’s what the fans want. They believe they have the personell to control the tempo. They run up tempo because up tempo means more plays and that’s what Muschamp wants. Their goal is to win games. If they lose scoring 45 points a game they’re still going to eventually lose their job if they don’t start winning.

And this is just me, but the history of SC football doesn’t exactly give our fans reason to turn their nose up at ANY win we get.
I believe that if you polled the fans, they would much rather win 45-38 than to win 14-7 because they love offense more than they love defense. And they would MUCH rather attend a high scoring game than a low scoring one. And attendance is very important to administration. $$$
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:01 PM   #112
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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I believe that if you polled the fans, they would much rather win 45-38 than to win 14-7 because they love offense more than they love defense. And they would MUCH rather attend a high scoring game than a low scoring one. And attendance is very important to administration. $$$
Excellent points. Been meaning to ask though, whoís that in your avatar? I showed my better half and we couldnít figure it out.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:04 PM   #113
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Excellent points. Been meaning to ask though, who’s that in your avatar? I showed my better half and we couldn’t figure it out.
Using chrome, right click on the image then left click on "Search Google for image". Not being a smart ass. Most people don't seem to know about this little feature.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:17 PM   #114
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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I believe that if you polled the fans, they would much rather win 45-38 than to win 14-7 because they love offense more than they love defense. And they would MUCH rather attend a high scoring game than a low scoring one. And attendance is very important to administration. $$$
I get that. I like points too. But unless your Alabama, you donít really have that luxury of arguing how many points you want to score in your win. Your main point though was that coaches call plays based on what the fans want. Youíre just not going to get me to believe that.

And also to be fair, the fans that would be pissed about only scoring 14 points a game would be pissed if were giving up 38 points a game. The point is, fans want wins and at the end of the day most fans donít care about how they get it.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:21 PM   #115
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Excellent points. Been meaning to ask though, whoís that in your avatar? I showed my better half and we couldnít figure it out.
That is Professor Irwin Corey, The World's Foremost Authority. He was a comedian, now deceased. Try looking up some of his stuff on YouTube.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:29 PM   #116
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I get that. I like points too. But unless your Alabama, you don’t really have that luxury of arguing how many points you want to score in your win. Your main point though was that coaches call plays based on what the fans want. You’re just not going to get me to believe that.

And also to be fair, the fans that would be pissed about only scoring 14 points a game would be pissed if were giving up 38 points a game. The point is, fans want wins and at the end of the day most fans don’t care about how they get it.
The points I was trying to make were 1. USC does not run the ball well because they recruit for and emphasize the pass. And I believe the reason for that is that they think they will recruit better if they play an offense that resembles what the pros run. They want to recruit guys who will make it to the NFL because that is where most of the recruits want to go. 2. High scoring sells tickets. Most fans would much rather see an 80 yard TD pass than an 80 yard TD drive that takes 18 plays and runs 10 minutes off the clock.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:51 PM   #117
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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The points I was trying to make were 1. USC does not run the ball well because they recruit for and emphasize the pass. And I believe the reason for that is that they think they will recruit better if they play an offense that resembles what the pros run. They want to recruit guys who will make it to the NFL because that is where most of the recruits want to go. 2. High scoring sells tickets. Most fans would much rather see an 80 yard TD pass than an 80 yard TD drive that takes 18 plays and runs 10 minutes off the clock.
But where are you getting the idea that SC emphasizes the pass?? Go look at the numbers man. We almost have the exact same number of passes to rush attempts on the season. And itís not like weíre always trying to throw the deep ball. The running game is inconsistent due to the defenses we play, building talent at OL and RB, etc.. NFL offenses are balanced too and I promise SC wants future pros at running back and receiver (as well as all other positions obviously).

As for the last point, weíll just agree to disagree. You think offense sells tickets. I think winning sells tickets. Thatís what coaches, players, administration and fans want at the end of the day. If you have season tickets and SC beats A&M 10-7 on Saturday, you shouldnít have any problem selling your tickets to the next game.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:07 PM   #118
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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But where are you getting the idea that SC emphasizes the pass?? Go look at the numbers man. We almost have the exact same number of passes to rush attempts on the season. And itís not like weíre always trying to throw the deep ball. The running game is inconsistent due to the defenses we play, building talent at OL and RB, etc.. NFL offenses are balanced too and I promise SC wants future pros at running back and receiver (as well as all other positions obviously).

As for the last point, weíll just agree to disagree. You think offense sells tickets. I think winning sells tickets. Thatís what coaches, players, administration and fans want at the end of the day. If you have season tickets and SC beats A&M 10-7 on Saturday, you shouldnít have any problem selling your tickets to the next game.
Do you think most USC fans would be happy if USC won every game 7-3? Wouldn't a lot of them complain about boring football and want something done to score more points?
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:12 PM   #119
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Default Re: Ground game issues

South Carolina emphasizes balance, which I think is a mistake and a big reason that we have not been better on Offense. You should always take what the Defense gives you and that is usually the pass. And we should also use more QB runs.

If we pass when the D is focused on the run, and make the QB run a threat, the holes will start to open up for the RBs.

FYI, Joyner had 2184 passing yards as a Senior and hit more that 2/3 of his passes, with a TD/INT ration of 15/4. So yeah, he was much more of a passer than Rico. And that was playing against a higher level of comeptition than Rico.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:16 PM   #120
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Default Re: Ground game issues

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Do you think most USC fans would be happy if USC won every game 7-3? Wouldn't a lot of them complain about boring football and want something done to score more points?
If we won every game 7-3 (including against Clemson) fans would be overjoyed.
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