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Old 01-03-2018, 08:39 AM   #21
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Default Re: What if...

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Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
I agree. And I don't think that I have ever seen a coach as successful that has drawn such little interest from bigger schools.

Not slamming Dabo, but I think people see his success as being an outlier, based on a somewhat unique situation. In other words, it would be hard to duplicate at another school.
Clemson is a top 3 program right now. What other schools other than OSU and Bama could be considered a step up or offer him more money? Clemson will match anyone’s salary offer (he’s already 3rd highest paid coach in nation; was 2nd before TAMU got desperate). Anywhere other than Ohio State and Bama would be a step down in terms of current program status and Dabo doesn’t strike me as the “I like to build programs and immediately leave” type.

Besides, in the past 30 or so years, how many coaches have won multiple conferences titles and or a national title and left a school that was still having success to go to another school and had similar success there? Ever. Meyer and Saban are all I can recall, and they not-so-coincidentally are already at the other two Top 3 programs. You think coaches don’t realize that the grass is rarely greener?
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:09 AM   #22
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Default Re: What if...

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Clemson is a top 3 program right now. What other schools other than OSU and Bama could be considered a step up or offer him more money? Clemson will match anyoneís salary offer (heís already 3rd highest paid coach in nation; was 2nd before TAMU got desperate). Anywhere other than Ohio State and Bama would be a step down in terms of current program status and Dabo doesnít strike me as the ďI like to build programs and immediately leaveĒ type.

Besides, in the past 30 or so years, how many coaches have won multiple conferences titles and or a national title and left a school that was still having success to go to another school and had similar success there? Ever. Meyer and Saban are all I can recall, and they not-so-coincidentally are already at the other two Top 3 programs. You think coaches donít realize that the grass is rarely greener?
You are no better than the 8th best team in the nation right now and historically you are not one of the Top 20 schools. That is in strictly in terms of football.

In terms of size, prestige, deep pockets, etc., you are even lower.

Lets take the B1G. Are you richer/larger student population/larger alumni base/get more media attention/have more tradition than Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Penn State? No. Three of the four even had better years than Clemson - one loss Wisconsin, two loss Ohio State and Penn State, all with nice bowl wins rather than collapses. In a league that went 7-1 in bowl games.

I am not sure that you even have an edge over Michigan State or Iowa, in terms of money, size, tradition.

That is one conference. I could do the same thing with the SEC, might even be worse.

Heck, you are not even the top program in your own conference. Want to compare your history to FSU or Miami, LOL?

At the end of the day, you are a small backwoods school that has had recent success by mysteriously starting to attract top recruiting classes. In that regard, you are more like Ole Miss than anyone else on the current landscape. There really ain't anything special in them thar hills - including Dabo, which is why bigger programs have not gone after him.
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:16 AM   #23
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Default Re: What if...

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I agree. And I don't think that I have ever seen a coach as successful that has drawn such little interest from bigger schools.

Not slamming Dabo, but I think people see his success as being an outlier, based on a somewhat unique situation. In other words, it would be hard to duplicate at another school.
Dabo is as good as his coordinators.
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:17 AM   #24
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Default Re: What if...

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There really ain't anything special in them thar hills - including Dabo, which is why bigger programs have not gone after him.

Not even the Rock or that faux ass Magic Grass.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:42 AM   #25
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Default Re: What if...

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You are no better than the 8th best team in the nation right now and historically you are not one of the Top 20 schools. That is in strictly in terms of football.

In terms of size, prestige, deep pockets, etc., you are even lower.

Lets take the B1G. Are you richer/larger student population/larger alumni base/get more media attention/have more tradition than Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, Penn State? No. Three of the four even had better years than Clemson - one loss Wisconsin, two loss Ohio State and Penn State, all with nice bowl wins rather than collapses. In a league that went 7-1 in bowl games.

I am not sure that you even have an edge over Michigan State or Iowa, in terms of money, size, tradition.

That is one conference. I could do the same thing with the SEC, might even be worse.

Heck, you are not even the top program in your own conference. Want to compare your history to FSU or Miami, LOL?

At the end of the day, you are a small backwoods school that has had recent success by mysteriously starting to attract top recruiting classes. In that regard, you are more like Ole Miss than anyone else on the current landscape. There really ain't anything special in them thar hills - including Dabo, which is why bigger programs have not gone after him.
Cool man. Didnít expect you to agree. Clemson is tied with Bama (after Sugar Bowl) for most wins in last 3 years, 3rd (3 behind Bama, 2 behind OSU) in the last 5 years, and 5th in the last 9 years (since Dabo took over). Surprised you didnít also point to TAMU and Nebraska as currently better programs than Clemson. If you think teams that havenít won a conference or national title in 20+ years are currently higher than Clemson as a football program, then by all means.

Just realize that you are an island of one in that thought.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:50 AM   #26
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Default Re: What if...

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Cool man. Didnít expect you to agree. Clemson is tied with Bama (after Sugar Bowl) for most wins in last 3 years, 3rd (3 behind Bama, 2 behind OSU) in the last 5 years, and 5th in the last 9 years (since Dabo took over). Surprised you didnít also point to TAMU and Nebraska as currently better programs than Clemson. If you think teams that havenít won a conference or national title in 20+ years are currently higher than Clemson as a football program, then by all means.

Just realize that you are an island of one in that thought.
All wins are equal. All conferences are equal.

Therefore by your logic, UCF > clemson.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:04 AM   #27
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Default Re: What if...

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All wins are equal. All conferences are equal.

Therefore by your logic, UCF > clemson.
Eh, except Clemson has more ranked wins than any other team the last 5 years. Many of those OOC and bowl games. Top 10 SOS the last 3 years

I mean if you’d like to point out other programs other than OSU and Bama that are equal or better to Clemson in 2017 I’m all ears
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:43 AM   #28
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Default Re: What if...

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Cool man. Didnít expect you to agree. Clemson is tied with Bama (after Sugar Bowl) for most wins in last 3 years, 3rd (3 behind Bama, 2 behind OSU) in the last 5 years, and 5th in the last 9 years (since Dabo took over). Surprised you didnít also point to TAMU and Nebraska as currently better programs than Clemson. If you think teams that havenít won a conference or national title in 20+ years are currently higher than Clemson as a football program, then by all means.

Just realize that you are an island of one in that thought.
No, I am in the mainstream - and by mainstream, I mean everything outside of Taternet.

You used the word "program", then restricted the meaning to just wins, and just in the last 3 - 5 years. Tater logic at its finest.

Program means a lot more than recent won-loss records. It means long-term won-loss records, titles, tradition, facilities, support, strength of competition, recruiting, etc.

You had a program-changing QB for three years and he elevated you to the top (with the help of pick plays), and you stayed in the Top Ten the following year because you did not play anyone really good until the playoffs (which your two ringers made sure that you got into).

Reality is you should be #8 now, and you stand to lose a lot to the NFL this year. Your recruiting has been good, but not better than keeping you around #8 (prior to this year's class, your composite ranking was in the #12 - #13 range.

Top 3 program? No, not even close. No matter what they say on Taternet. You are a Top Ten program that has been boosted by being a football school in a basketball conference - that is down right now, even by their low standards.
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Old 01-03-2018, 12:20 PM   #29
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Default Re: What if...

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Eh, except Clemson has more ranked wins than any other team the last 5 years. Many of those OOC and bowl games. Top 10 SOS the last 3 years

I mean if you’d like to point out other programs other than OSU and Bama that are equal or better to Clemson in 2017 I’m all ears
Okay, so we are the best team in college football because we were the only team to beat a B1G team in the bowls.

Sound stupid? Of course. But not any sillier than claiming to be a Top Three program based on won-loss records over the last three or five seasons. You can't make a broad all-encompassing statement and then define it with a very narrow definition - the most wins over either the last three or five years. Especially when you are playing in a league that is historically at the bottom of the Power Five conferences. Won-loss records are only a small piece.

Better programs right now? Alabama and UGA are playing for the championship, so that is two. Alabama has been there three years in a row and is going for what - their 5th championship in the last 9 years? UGA just won the SEC, which is an actual accomplishment, as opposed to winning the ACC. Sorry, that is just the truth. Mark Richt went 50-10 in his last 5 years with two SEC East titles - and got fired.

Go beyond that. Tradition? Recruiting? Players in the pros? Head to head match-ups? Do you have an edge in any of those? No? Do I need to keep going?

Florida State and Ohio State have both won titles in the last five years. You have already conceded OSU's success in recent years. Prior to this year's aberration due to QB injury (which you used as an excuse, so don't complain), FSU was 77-17 under Jimbo with 4 ACC titles in 7 years. Both schools have better tradition. They have out-recruited you every year since 2014 (same with UGA and Alabama). Players in the pros? No? Man, this is easy!

I could keep going. You had a nice run with Watson that will keep you close to the Top Ten for a couple more years, but you have never been - or will ever be - a Top Three program.

Plus, you have an assclown for a coach, and he is showing his ass more and more. Enjoy.
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:25 PM   #30
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Default Re: What if...

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Okay, so we are the best team in college football because we were the only team to beat a B1G team in the bowls.

Sound stupid? Of course. But not any sillier than claiming to be a Top Three program based on won-loss records over the last three or five seasons. You can't make a broad all-encompassing statement and then define it with a very narrow definition - the most wins over either the last three or five years. Especially when you are playing in a league that is historically at the bottom of the Power Five conferences. Won-loss records are only a small piece.

Better programs right now? Alabama and UGA are playing for the championship, so that is two. Alabama has been there three years in a row and is going for what - their 5th championship in the last 9 years? UGA just won the SEC, which is an actual accomplishment, as opposed to winning the ACC. Sorry, that is just the truth. Mark Richt went 50-10 in his last 5 years with two SEC East titles - and got fired.

Go beyond that. Tradition? Recruiting? Players in the pros? Head to head match-ups? Do you have an edge in any of those? No? Do I need to keep going?

Florida State and Ohio State have both won titles in the last five years. You have already conceded OSU's success in recent years. Prior to this year's aberration due to QB injury (which you used as an excuse, so don't complain), FSU was 77-17 under Jimbo with 4 ACC titles in 7 years. Both schools have better tradition. They have out-recruited you every year since 2014 (same with UGA and Alabama). Players in the pros? No? Man, this is easy!

I could keep going. You had a nice run with Watson that will keep you close to the Top Ten for a couple more years, but you have never been - or will ever be - a Top Three program.

Plus, you have an assclown for a coach, and he is showing his ass more and more. Enjoy.
Yup, UGA who hasn't won a National Title in almost 40 years, and has a worse W-L record, less BCS bowl wins, conference titles, etc in the last decade. They are a better program than Clemson.

But hey, if W-L doesn't mean anything, then I dunno why they play the games. Apparently "tradition", facilities, and recruiting are what makes programs elite nowadays, not results on the field. If that's the case, then I actually don't want Clemson to be elite. I'll just stick to winning games, and you can call it whatever you want.

For your sake, I hope Muschamp and co. actually care about winning games, and aren't focusing on non-result metrics.

Oh, and Richt actually went 49-17 in his last 5 season, not 50-10. Did you just make up a W-L total that added up to 60 (12 games per season)? Sounds like something you'd do. Good thing you didn't do that 6th season (6-7).
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:24 PM   #31
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Default Re: What if...

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Yup, UGA who hasn't won a National Title in almost 40 years, and has a worse W-L record, less BCS bowl wins, conference titles, etc in the last decade. They are a better program than Clemson.

But hey, if W-L doesn't mean anything, then I dunno why they play the games. Apparently "tradition", facilities, and recruiting are what makes programs elite nowadays, not results on the field. If that's the case, then I actually don't want Clemson to be elite. I'll just stick to winning games, and you can call it whatever you want.

For your sake, I hope Muschamp and co. actually care about winning games, and aren't focusing on non-result metrics.

Oh, and Richt actually went 49-17 in his last 5 season, not 50-10. Did you just make up a W-L total that added up to 60 (12 games per season)? Sounds like something you'd do. Good thing you didn't do that 6th season (6-7).
UGA did have 50 wins in five seasons prior to Smart taking over, but the 50th win was credited to South Carolina's Bryan McClendon as interim HC. Sorry on the loss total, I added up the SEC losses.

But it does not really matter - the point is the same. You are using wins and losses for a short time frame - one that puts Clemson in a good light and coincide with having the best player in your history - to say that Clemson is a Top Three program. Which ignores the other things that make a top program. For instance:

UGA recruits better (not close and their current class is #1, so the gap is getting wider), has more tradition, owns the head to head record at 42-18-4 (now that is "domination"), has 144 more weeks in the Top 20/25, has the edge in Heismans 2-0, has 79 more wins overall - I could go on, but you get the point.

Clemson does tie with players in the NFL and national titles, thanks to Clemson's win last year. That is about it. But UGA will take the edge in pros after this season (say hello to Sony Michel and Nick Chubb) and could re-take the lead in national titles next Monday.

UGA has achieved those win totals in a much, much better conference. You could argue but that would make you look really dumb - all you have to do is look at your (and the ACC's) win totals against the SEC. So your one edge - 18-15 edge in conference titles - means nothing.

But you focused on UGA (dumb move, much better program, sorry) and ignored Ohio State, Alabama and Florida State. So I guess you have already conceded that they are better programs and you are not Top Three, LOL.

And if you really want to talk "programs" and not just look at short term win totals (padded in a piss-poor league), you are not Top Ten. Remember, you are outside the Top 20 in the list of all-time football schools, you rank around 9th in talent on your roster, and should be around 8th this year.

Top Three? Only on Taternet.
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Old 01-04-2018, 08:45 AM   #32
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Default Re: What if...

Clemson will have more drafted than UGA this year, not sure why you pointed to a couple day 2/3 picks when Clemson will have two DL in the first round. I wonder if UGA fans would want Clemson’s success or if they’re cool not winning titles. They win on Monday and I’d put them up there. If not, not sure how you can have a team that hasn’t won it all in 40 years as an equivalent.

FSU is in trouble. Clemson has been winning the H2H consistently and has more ACC titles, and same number of National titles since Dabo took over 9 years ago. Not to mention the future of the two programs couldn’t be more stark. Their 2018 class looks like they were hit with Penn State sanctions

Like I said, it’s not like it really matters where Clemson’s program is in your eyes. I mean you said Clemson’s NC last year shouldn’t have counted, so that explains everything we need to know. Clenson could win 12+ games the next few years with another title and you’d still put them behind Penn State and Wisconsin, lol
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Old 01-06-2018, 03:42 PM   #33
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Saban gets another championship against UGA and decides to retire and Dabo leaves Clemson?
Would be awesome.

Clemson would drop off significantly and there's no way Dabo is able to sustain the level of success at Bama (not saying he won't do well, he's just not Nick Saban).

Saban leaving would be great for the sport.
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:16 PM   #34
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Old 01-06-2018, 06:14 PM   #35
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UGA did have 50 wins in five seasons prior to Smart taking over, but the 50th win was credited to South Carolina's Bryan McClendon as interim HC. Sorry on the loss total, I added up the SEC losses.

But it does not really matter - the point is the same. You are using wins and losses for a short time frame - one that puts Clemson in a good light and coincide with having the best player in your history - to say that Clemson is a Top Three program. Which ignores the other things that make a top program. For instance:

UGA recruits better (not close and their current class is #1, so the gap is getting wider), has more tradition, owns the head to head record at 42-18-4 (now that is "domination"), has 144 more weeks in the Top 20/25, has the edge in Heismans 2-0, has 79 more wins overall - I could go on, but you get the point.

Clemson does tie with players in the NFL and national titles, thanks to Clemson's win last year. That is about it. But UGA will take the edge in pros after this season (say hello to Sony Michel and Nick Chubb) and could re-take the lead in national titles next Monday.

UGA has achieved those win totals in a much, much better conference. You could argue but that would make you look really dumb - all you have to do is look at your (and the ACC's) win totals against the SEC. So your one edge - 18-15 edge in conference titles - means nothing.

But you focused on UGA (dumb move, much better program, sorry) and ignored Ohio State, Alabama and Florida State. So I guess you have already conceded that they are better programs and you are not Top Three, LOL.

And if you really want to talk "programs" and not just look at short term win totals (padded in a piss-poor league), you are not Top Ten. Remember, you are outside the Top 20 in the list of all-time football schools, you rank around 9th in talent on your roster, and should be around 8th this year.

Top Three? Only on Taternet.
Well the immediate future looks good for both UGA and Clemson.
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:14 PM   #36
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Default Re: What if...

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Clemson will have more drafted than UGA this year, not sure why you pointed to a couple day 2/3 picks when Clemson will have two DL in the first round. I wonder if UGA fans would want Clemson’s success or if they’re cool not winning titles. They win on Monday and I’d put them up there. If not, not sure how you can have a team that hasn’t won it all in 40 years as an equivalent.

FSU is in trouble. Clemson has been winning the H2H consistently and has more ACC titles, and same number of National titles since Dabo took over 9 years ago. Not to mention the future of the two programs couldn’t be more stark. Their 2018 class looks like they were hit with Penn State sanctions

Like I said, it’s not like it really matters where Clemson’s program is in your eyes. I mean you said Clemson’s NC last year shouldn’t have counted, so that explains everything we need to know. Clenson could win 12+ games the next few years with another title and you’d still put them behind Penn State and Wisconsin, lol
Georgia had 11 returning starters on an outstanding Defense, 7 Seniors and 4 Juniors. Think they have any draftees there, LOL? And then Chubb and Michel. It is very doubtful that you will have more players drafted.

And even if happened, the conversation is about players in the NFL. Let's see how many are on rosters at the start of next season. Remember UGA consistently out-recruits you and has more talent.

And if you want to look down on UGA because they have not won a title since 1980, remember that until you picked your way to the title last year, you had not won since the cheating title in 1981. And they can one-up you by winning tomorrow. They have a 42-18-4 edge head to head - including a win in the last game in 2014, and 6 of the last 7. You are looking up at them, not the other way around.

You know who else consistently out-recruits you? FSU. The coaching change will hurt this year's class, but they still will have a better average over the last four years - including the upper classmen that will get most of the playing time.

They did not handle losing their starting QB early but improved a lot by season's end. They will have two QB options next year and they have a new coach that cranks up the Offense.

Clemson - big hat, no cattle. Well, you do have cattle, since you are an ag school. But a few milk cows is not a ranch.
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:45 PM   #37
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[QUOTE=Ace Dilcock;5130878
Clemson - big hat, no cattle. Well, you do have cattle, since you are an ag school. But a few milk cows is not a ranch.[/QUOTE]

Those cows trampled all over the roosters
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:36 PM   #38
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All jokes aside, what is this connection that people keep referring to between newspring and clemson? If there ever was one, it probably died when Perry Noble was forced to resign.
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:21 PM   #39
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All jokes aside, what is this connection that people keep referring to between newspring and clemson? If there ever was one, it probably died when Perry Noble was forced to resign.
Mainly, money laundering. Big booster makes a donation to a church, church then gives money to specific recruits family.
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:24 AM   #40
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Money talks. I bet if Alabama made him the highest paid coach in America, with an lucrative multi-year contract, he would strongly consider leaving for his alma mater.
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