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Old 07-05-2017, 05:07 PM   #41
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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Originally Posted by smoovecock View Post
..I like our starters and 8 deep. Problem is they got there butts pushed around a lot last year. In September you aint running your starters out there for 95% of the game. NO way you can do that. I will say the guys we have in the fold right now can be a nice nucleus of linemen and with Wolfie back coaching them I expect a much improved unit.
I can live with what you are saying, Smoovie, but I still believe that a big part of people's perception that "they got there butts pushed around a lot last year" is due to the zone blocking scheme. In other words - they were doing exactly what they were supposed to be doing, and were effective. But they were giving ground, which fans equate to getting their "butts pushed around a lot".

No matter - we are losing the zone blocking, so (hopefully) you will see the other team get their "butts pushed around a lot" in 2017. Whether that makes us more effective or not, we will have to see.
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Old 07-05-2017, 05:17 PM   #42
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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I can live with what you are saying, Smoovie, but I still believe that a big part of people's perception that "they got there butts pushed around a lot last year" is due to the zone blocking scheme. In other words - they were doing exactly what they were supposed to be doing, and were effective. But they were giving ground, which fans equate to getting their "butts pushed around a lot".

No matter - we are losing the zone blocking, so (hopefully) you will see the other team get their "butts pushed around a lot" in 2017. Whether that makes us more effective or not, we will have to see.
.. The Zone Blocking sure didnt help our Oline. It seemed that Elliott was recruiting guys that could not block in that scheme or defenses in the SEC just ate it up. You can run a few plays with Zone Blocking in the SEC, but you cant run that scheme in your system most of the time. The defenses in the SEC are just too fast and also too big. Im glad to see the Zone Blocking scheme go away. I think the guys we have right now are big enough and fast enough to give our offense time to work if they are in a traditional type scheme.
The addition of Williams as a RB and Bentz being a year wiser and older should pay dividens for the Oline also. The Oline will actually have a QB who can make sure, along with the center, that everyone is in the right position. That was a problem last year. We had guys that was not lining up in the correct places.
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Old 07-05-2017, 08:42 PM   #43
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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.. The Zone Blocking sure didnt help our Oline. It seemed that Elliott was recruiting guys that could not block in that scheme or defenses in the SEC just ate it up. You can run a few plays with Zone Blocking in the SEC, but you cant run that scheme in your system most of the time. The defenses in the SEC are just too fast and also too big. Im glad to see the Zone Blocking scheme go away. I think the guys we have right now are big enough and fast enough to give our offense time to work if they are in a traditional type scheme.
The addition of Williams as a RB and Bentz being a year wiser and older should pay dividens for the Oline also. The Oline will actually have a QB who can make sure, along with the center, that everyone is in the right position. That was a problem last year. We had guys that was not lining up in the correct places.
During the spring game, was our OL using Coach Wolford's new blocking schemes or still zone blocking with Coach Elliotts? Also, is our OL having to learn an entirely new blocking playbook?
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:48 PM   #44
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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This is true. Looking at stats I think I was actually thinking of his Sophomore year when he had some huge catches at the end of the year and turned in a good performance in the bowl game. Then his next year dropped off in stats a bit and then disappeared. His true freshman year was pretty much forgettable, so I forgot it.

Edwards after year 1 is 12 receptions off of Roland's career totals. Over halfway in terms of yardage and almost halfway for TDs. We definitely have a lot of reason to be optimistic, and I am, I just don't want to wind up disappointed if he doesn't turn out to be Alshon 2.0.
I don't think he is on Alshon's level talent-wise. Virtually no one is. I don't see him as a 1st rounder like Alshon but more of a 3-5th round kind of talent if he continues on this path. Which is still very good.

I love the talent on our offense and I agree that on paper that our receiving corps is in the top 10 in the country. Deebo and Hurst are big time talents. And we have better depth than we've had in a while at WR/TE/RB. The biggest thing holding us back is not our OL but our scheme IMO. Many people forget our offense was abysmal for 90% of last year (I know we were young and inexperienced blah blah blah). I need to see Roper open up the playbook this year before I start believing that this offense can reach its potential. We don't have the "young" excuse anymore.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:56 AM   #45
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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I don't think he is on Alshon's level talent-wise. Virtually no one is. I don't see him as a 1st rounder like Alshon but more of a 3-5th round kind of talent if he continues on this path. Which is still very good.

I love the talent on our offense and I agree that on paper that our receiving corps is in the top 10 in the country. Deebo and Hurst are big time talents. And we have better depth than we've had in a while at WR/TE/RB. The biggest thing holding us back is not our OL but our scheme IMO. Many people forget our offense was abysmal for 90% of last year (I know we were young and inexperienced blah blah blah). I need to see Roper open up the playbook this year before I start believing that this offense can reach its potential. We don't have the "young" excuse anymore.
I'm hopeful that most of that was due to the fact that his offense was totally new to the team, and many of the players were incredibly young. Considering they only had the spring to really install plays, I think they tried to limit the variety of plays and just focus on execution.

Now, they have had the playbook for a year and have been working together for a year, I fully expect to see Roper open it up this year.

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Old 07-06-2017, 10:19 AM   #46
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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During the spring game, was our OL using Coach Wolford's new blocking schemes or still zone blocking with Coach Elliotts? Also, is our OL having to learn an entirely new blocking playbook?
Some plays use zone blocking as the scheme. The inside/outside zone plays as well as zone read plays. Almost certain they are still around. We started using some of these types of plays when Wolfie was at USC in '09.

If you remember, Wisky ran the same zone blocking schemes and plays we did in the '14 Cap One bowl game, but looked more polished than our OL did (293 yds rushing). That certainly raised some questions not about the scheme, but our OL's execution of it.
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Old 07-06-2017, 10:45 AM   #47
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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Some plays use zone blocking as the scheme. The inside/outside zone plays as well as zone read plays. Almost certain they are still around. We started using some of these types of plays when Wolfie was at USC in '09.

If you remember, Wisky ran the same zone blocking schemes and plays we did in the '14 Cap One bowl game, but looked more polished than our OL did (293 yds rushing). That certainly raised some questions not about the scheme, but our OL's execution of it.
Yea, our o line troubles really have nothing to do with zone blocking. That's an odd football misconception. Who said we were dropping zone blocking anyway? Are people assuming this because we have wolford?
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:26 AM   #48
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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Yea, our o line troubles really have nothing to do with zone blocking. That's an odd football misconception. Who said we were dropping zone blocking anyway? Are people assuming this because we have wolford?
Zone blocking isn't going away. I think that is a common misconception. The scheme is similar but Wolford is putting more effort in refining technique.

So if you are someone that thinks Wolford is ditching the zone blocking for man vs man then you're in for a big disappointment September 2nd.
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:30 AM   #49
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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During the spring game, was our OL using Coach Wolford's new blocking schemes or still zone blocking with Coach Elliotts? Also, is our OL having to learn an entirely new blocking playbook?
Yeah, we still are going to incorporate the zone blocking schemes in our blocking technics, it just want be used as much as in the past. And NO our line is not going to have to learn a whole new play book just adding a few things and probably new signals.
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Old 07-06-2017, 12:19 PM   #50
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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Zone blocking isn't going away. I think that is a common misconception. The scheme is similar but Wolford is putting more effort in refining technique.

So if you are someone that thinks Wolford is ditching the zone blocking for man vs man then you're in for a big disappointment September 2nd.
That's kind of what I was saying.
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Old 07-06-2017, 01:05 PM   #51
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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I'm very optimistic about our receiving corps but I'm not ready to anoint them just yet. They absolutely have the potential to be the best in the country, but for that to happen we'll need Deebo to turn into a true 1000 yard receiver and Edwards and Hurst will need to turn in more consistently good performances. If one of our Freshman blows up and everyone else can play their role, watch out. Of course, Jake will also have to play like we all expect him to.

I expect the unit to be good no doubt, but talking about the best in the country I feel like the above would have to happen to be in that discussion.

Based on Deebo's per-game average last season, he was already a 1,000 yard-capable receiver: he just didn't play enough games to total those 1,000 yds. But his 78.3 YPG would've netted him 1,018 total yds had he played all 13 games last season....
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Old 07-06-2017, 01:17 PM   #52
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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Based on Deebo's per-game average last season, he was already a 1,000 yard-capable receiver: he just didn't play enough games to total those 1,000 yds. But his 78.3 YPG would've netted him 1,018 total yds had he played all 13 games last season....
And like in 2017, he had games where he saw very little playing time and had to come out early. Or else he would have been way over 78.3 yards per game.

One of the key moments of last season was the first play of the Mississippi State game, when we aired it out to Deebo. He had separation and the pass was well thrown for what would have been a quick strike TD, but Deebo pulled up lame. That would have set an entirely different tone for the game - instead, we struggled on Offense without Deebo, and no reliable QB or RB, and Fitzgerald tore us up.
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Old 07-06-2017, 02:23 PM   #53
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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If you remember, Wisky ran the same zone blocking schemes and plays we did in the '14 Cap One bowl game, but looked more polished than our OL did (293 yds rushing). That certainly raised some questions not about the scheme, but our OL's execution of it.
Yeah, lots of people have misconceptions about zone blocking schemes.

Bottom line, with the right personnel, those schemes work. Wisky made them work. NFL teams made them work.

Two big things needed for zone blocking schemes are good communication and agility, the OL many times needs to be able to chip one guy on a "double team" then block another defender. That's not including any blocking done by a TE or RB picking up blitzes.

We seemed to struggle with communication ( in part due to different guys shifting positions, and newer players in the game), and we struggled with agility...partly due to guys being a step slow, partly due to guys slowed by injury.

I'll never say our OL has been great, deep, or good the last few years. It hasn't been, we couldn't even exert our will against Citadel players two years ago.

I do think if they can stay healthy this year, AND pick up a step in agility, it'll make a huge difference. It's been agonizing watching slow motion breakdowns of game play, seeing us miss a block because we're just a step slow, everything moves so fast that you can't see it if you don't rewind and watch in slo mo.

I'm one of the guys that didn't see CSE as the problem, I think CEW is going to run similar schemes that may look better simply because guys are healthy, in better shape, and have spent more time working together.
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Old 07-06-2017, 02:39 PM   #54
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

Another thing we have to remember that is not being talked about that much around here is being able to run the ball. If our RBs are able to run the ball effectively our WRs will have a field day during games.
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:48 PM   #55
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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I'm one of the guys that didn't see CSE as the problem, I think CEW is going to run similar schemes that may look better simply because guys are healthy, in better shape, and have spent more time working together.
Dunno....but our OL's have had an uncanny ability to get beat by some simple run blitzes and whiffs that destroyed plays and drives. At some point one wonders if there's a coaching ceiling that got maxed.
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Old 07-06-2017, 04:31 PM   #56
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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Dunno....but our OL's have had an uncanny ability to get beat by some simple run blitzes and whiffs that destroyed plays and drives. At some point one wonders if there's a coaching ceiling that got maxed.
The coaching was fine. Were we complaining about zone blocking in 2010-13? i dont really recall much complaining about that system. I think we just had guys that were better at performing. I also think we had far less youth and injury.

First off, we had Shaw, Lattimore Wilds and Jeffery to start....and on Elliotts oline we had shell, tj johnson, cann, robinson, jarriel king, chisolm, patrick etc on those teams. we had serious talent. Compare those names with 2014-2016..Not close. What ive always heard is that its the jimmies and the joes and not the xs and os..thats my take.

That is why i will never ever have one bad thing to say about Spurrier. We had a glorious run, and it was fun.

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Old 07-06-2017, 04:54 PM   #57
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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Based on Deebo's per-game average last season, he was already a 1,000 yard-capable receiver: he just didn't play enough games to total those 1,000 yds. But his 78.3 YPG would've netted him 1,018 total yds had he played all 13 games last season....
Injuries are part of the game, and how much Deebo plays (and how healthy he is when he does) will have a big impact on how potent our receivers are, not to mention our offense in general. I don't disagree with your post, he is absolutely capable if he stays healthy, but this thread is about potentially having the best receiving corps in the country. We need Deebo healthy to truly have a shot at that title. Personally I don't want to settle for "best when everyone is healthy".
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Old 07-06-2017, 05:53 PM   #58
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

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The coaching was fine. Were we complaining about zone blocking in 2010-13? i dont really recall much complaining about that system. I think we just had guys that were better at performing. I also think we had far less youth and injury.

First off, we had Shaw, Lattimore Wilds and Jeffery to start....and on Elliotts oline we had shell, tj johnson, cann, robinson, jarriel king, chisolm, patrick etc on those teams. we had serious talent. Compare those names with 2014-2016..Not close. What ive always heard is that its the jimmies and the joes and not the xs and os..thats my take.

That is why i will never ever have one bad thing to say about Spurrier. We had a glorious run, and it was fun.
O Line coaching was fine, experience for this year is really good, talent is a little unproven but I personally believe we have that also.

We were a little unlucky with injuries at the first of last year and that held us back. Barring a recurrence, they will be a really good group in 2017.

I think that Bailey is as good as the players you mention, potentially Stanley and some others also.
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:55 PM   #59
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

If the Oline holds up, who knows? We might get to see page 3 of Roper's playbook!!!!!
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:57 PM   #60
EAtMoRTaYtErz
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Default Re: "One of best receiving corps in country"

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfowens View Post
I agree. Blake was a top-notch passer (when he was on)! The only thing about Blake was that he was a little streaky (off at times). When he was hot, then forget it, he was as good as we have had at SC.
He was amazing his last year. Too bad our defense was amazingly bad that year.
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