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Go Back   CockyTalk > Gamecocks Sports > The Proving Ground > Basketball Recruits

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Old 06-02-2018, 08:59 PM   #1
Three and Out
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Default 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

I think this is right, somebody check me on this.

Commits
Bryant
Moss
Frink
Cousinard
Campbell (transfer)
Bolden (transfer)
Lawson (hopefully)

Roster
Silva
Kotsar
Haase
Gravett
Minaya
Cudd

The only players we lose after this season are Silva, Gravett and Campbell. Of course, others from the 2018 class could leave. The 2019 class has Hannibal and Gary (likely). So there is only 1 spot left for sure.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Three and Out View Post
I think this is right, somebody check me on this.

Commits
Bryant
Moss
Frink
Cousinard
Campbell (transfer)
Bolden (transfer)
Lawson (hopefully)

Roster
Silva
Kotsar
Haase
Gravett
Minaya
Cudd

The only players we lose after this season are Silva, Gravett and Campbell. Of course, others from the 2018 class could leave. The 2019 class has Hannibal and Gary (likely). So there is only 1 spot left for sure.
we gonna be young and we are gonna make lots of mistakes for the next few years. These freshman are gonna have to be able to contribute this year.
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Three and Out View Post
I think this is right, somebody check me on this.

Commits
Bryant
Moss
Frink
Cousinard
Campbell (transfer)
Bolden (transfer)
Lawson (hopefully)

Roster
Silva
Kotsar
Haase
Gravett
Minaya
Cudd
Seems to be a nice group to work with. I was really surprised to get Bolden and Bryant. And I hope we can get Lawson. I don't know if his decision will be affected by Bryant. Now we'll have to see which of the new players can adapt to college ball and to Frank's system. Hopefully, they all can, but we won't know for a while. Except for Frink, all the new guys are guards and/or small forwards. Should be a lot of versatility and multi- position guys in the group. I can hardly wait for practice to begin!
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironfan View Post
we gonna be young and we are gonna make lots of mistakes for the next few years. These freshman are gonna have to be able to contribute this year.
We just need to focus on keeping these young players in the program. Hopefully Frank makes that a priority going forward.
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

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Originally Posted by Pty23 View Post
We just need to focus on keeping these young players in the program. Hopefully Frank makes that a priority going forward.
Exactly right. We will never get anywhere starting over every single year. Not exactly happy with the recruiting though. right now its a Top 60 class. Thornwell's class was top 25 FYI. Ya know the one that went to Final 4. Last 3 years our class has not even been top 50's.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

I want to apologize for my negativity the other night. I will take my crow fried.

I know that Frank always has some back up plans in place and I should know by know to let the process play out. That being said I hope we finish this group out with AJ Lawson.
This looks like a long, athletic group. If we can get them to gel early we might make a run.

As always, it is great to be a Gamecock!!!
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironfan View Post
Exactly right. We will never get anywhere starting over every single year. Not exactly happy with the recruiting though. right now its a Top 60 class. Thornwell's class was top 25 FYI. Ya know the one that went to Final 4. Last 3 years our class has not even been top 50's.
Thornwell's class also included 7 players and only 3 of them stayed on the roster to count for the final four. 2 of which (Notice and Thornwell) actually played really meaningful minutes and exceeded expectations based on their high school rankings. So I would not be as concerned about rankings more so than the actual production and willingness of the players to learn and get better. The guys who stick it out usually seem to out exceed their HS expectations under Frank and company.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

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Originally Posted by GAMEKEM View Post
Thornwell's class also included 7 players and only 3 of them stayed on the roster to count for the final four. 2 of which (Notice and Thornwell) actually played really meaningful minutes and exceeded expectations based on their high school rankings. So I would not be as concerned about rankings more so than the actual production and willingness of the players to learn and get better. The guys who stick it out usually seem to out exceed their HS expectations under Frank and company.
Not a way to build a program, IMO. We are in year 7 of FM era. We should not be starting over every year.. But I do understand your point
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

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Not a way to build a program, IMO. We are in year 7 of FM era. We should not be starting over every year.. But I do understand your point
Actually, it is the way to build a program - Duke and UK start over every year. By contrast, we are a mountain of stability.

One thing that no one has ever answered - what really talented players have left? Who has gone on to stardom at another school? There have been some solid role players, but that is all.

When the same thing happens on the football team - players leaving for more PT at another school - everyone is fine with it. We just say that it opens up another scholarship. When it happens on the basketball side, everyone jumps on Frank.

And while I really like Boom, he has never made the College Footbal Playoffs. Frank has been to the basketball version - the Final Four.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

Ironfan, are you the guy blowing up FM on twitter about the kids that committed today?
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Dilcock View Post
Actually, it is the way to build a program - Duke and UK start over every year. By contrast, we are a mountain of stability.

One thing that no one has ever answered - what really talented players have left? Who has gone on to stardom at another school? There have been some solid role players, but that is all.

When the same thing happens on the football team - players leaving for more PT at another school - everyone is fine with it. We just say that it opens up another scholarship. When it happens on the basketball side, everyone jumps on Frank.

And while I really like Boom, he has never made the College Footbal Playoffs. Frank has been to the basketball version - the Final Four.
Great. Just one problem. When has FM had a top 2 recruiting class at USC?
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironfan View Post
Great. Just one problem. When has FM had a top 2 recruiting class at USC?
Not a problem at all. Like I said, we are a mountain of stability compared to UK and Duke. We don't need a Top Two recruiting class to be successful - a year ago, we beat Duke on the way to the Final Four. And we have handled UK as well.

I was just pointing out that we have kept the players that we needed (and wanted). You can blame Frank for poor recruiting or bad talent evaluation with the players that he brings in, but player retention has not been our issue. That has been more of a case of erasing the recruiting mistakes.
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Old 06-03-2018, 02:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

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Not a way to build a program, IMO. We are in year 7 of FM era. We should not be starting over every year.. But I do understand your point
It’s certainly not the optimal way but after 30 years of mediocrity, 5* players just aren’t going to knock down Frank’s door. We need a solid nucleus of players and then try to expand from there. And it looks like every year the new group coming in is better than the year before.
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Old 06-03-2018, 02:05 AM   #14
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

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Great. Just one problem. When has FM had a top 2 recruiting class at USC?
I’m not sure if Carolina has ever had a top 10 recruiting class.
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Old 06-03-2018, 06:31 AM   #15
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

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Not a way to build a program, IMO. We are in year 7 of FM era. We should not be starting over every year.. But I do understand your point
We have basically "started over" 3 of the 7 years under CFM, and 2 of those are taking place over the most recent back-to-back seasons, so it seems to be every year but really isn't.

CFM pretty much cleaned house after his initial season at USC: already losing Horn players like Gill and Harris before he took over the program, he then basically removed the rest - Slawson, Leonard, Richardson, Smith - after the first year. Lakeem Jackson and Malik Cooke graduated, and Ellington stopped playing after 3 games to focus on football, so our 2nd season under CFM was basically a reset then....

Other players in the subsequent seasons would also leave, but not in such a huge wave. CFM's first recruits Chat, Kacinas, and Carrera - along with the lone Horn holdover Brenton Williams - stayed their entire terms and got degrees, and developed into team leaders. Others like Thornwell, Notice, and McKie have as well. Some players here and there didn't pan out or have the patience for Martin's coaching style, but that happens in most programs these apparently.

Then came the huge group of players dismissed during Silva's freshman season, in 2015-16. Those players were supposed to provide depth behind Thornwell, Dozier, and Notice.

We had to fill those gaps, and mostly did so with transfers, JUCO, graduate transfers: players with less playing eligibility, but with top upper-class talent like Thornwell, Notice, etc. the staff wanted to take advantage of the opportunity before they were gone. And no one can argue that they failed at that, with a Final Four appearance.

Then when Thornwell, Notice, and McKie graduated - and Dozier left early - the next season, between the two losses of personnel after the 2015-16 and 2016-17 seasons, yes we're now having to reset the program sort of again. Kind of amazing to think that the program won 51 games in the middle of all that personnel attrition and turnover.

That we haven't reset the program with elite talent, coming off of the FF season, is certainly frustrating for many. The one-and-done players - not elite talent going pro, but transfers spending 1 or 2 seasons with us - haven't made things easier for the staff to establish some continuity and stability within the program. We do have this coming season with Silva returning for his senior season, and Kotsar, Minaya, Haase, Cudd, and yes even Hassani all being back, some degree of upper-class seniority and experience. The young depth behind them will need to catch up quickly...and then hang around for a while.....
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Old 06-03-2018, 12:54 PM   #16
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

I won't quote Conway's post due to length, but that is some good stuff. The BB gun incident was unfortunate and cost us some depth, but none of those guys would have elevated our talent level. It just creates room for more recruits that might be winners. I don't like the idea of signing lots of players and running them off if they don't pan out - I would rather get guys that we know are good enough - but until we have more sustained success, that is where we are.

I think that Frank scored last year with Haase, Minaya and Cudd. We missed on Beatty and Holden for a variety of reasons, including Holden's njuries. But our other two transfer Guards were a success, and we have two more coming on board, including a possible answer at PG for this year. And I am optimistic about Couisnard and Moss.

And then Bryant and Lawson (that seems to be highly likely) at the wings to go with Minaya, and we have something. That puts us in a position where we have the numbers moving forward, just need to find a few difference makers, like a Gary or James.
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Old 06-03-2018, 01:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

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we gonna be young and we are gonna make lots of mistakes for the next few years. These freshman are gonna have to be able to contribute this year.
All teams make mistakes. So your first comment about the class is negtive.

As you can see, Frank is loading up with players that can handle the ball and score. Our best team 2 years ago basically had 4 guys that could do that. The old ways of getting one player to fit one position are over. Bryant, for example, can play 1-4.
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Old 06-03-2018, 02:06 PM   #18
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

There are 347 teams in D1, out of those only about 15 are perennial teams, we are one of the others that make it every now and then when we load up with a senior team. Just work towards that.
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Old 06-03-2018, 02:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

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All teams make mistakes. So your first comment about the class is negtive.

As you can see, Frank is loading up with players that can handle the ball and score. Our best team 2 years ago basically had 4 guys that could do that. The old ways of getting one player to fit one position are over. Bryant, for example, can play 1-4.
not sure i would call a top 60 class "loading up", but of course this is just my opinion.

Edit: to be fair AJ Lawson would make it a top 35 class

Last edited by Ironfan; 06-03-2018 at 02:18 PM..
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Old 06-03-2018, 02:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: 2018 Basketball Class and Roster

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Exactly right. We will never get anywhere starting over every single year. Not exactly happy with the recruiting though. right now its a Top 60 class. Thornwell's class was top 25 FYI. Ya know the one that went to Final 4. Last 3 years our class has not even been top 50's.
Agree 100%.. Frank needs to address some issues.. Especially instate!!!
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