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Old Yesterday, 12:17 PM   #161
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

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Originally Posted by USCBatgirl21 View Post
As I said, if they aren't going to do that then they need to build a parking garage to handle the extra car traffic. Plus, the lots are basically empty by 730 most nights anyway (other than those who are going to something in the Greek Village), so those taking night and evening classes aren't the majority parking there to begin with.
The issue with the parking garages is that they are super expensive $400 or more a semester vs the $100 for a whole year a commuter pass costs. I can not afford a garage pass, and I would assume most of the people who choose to park in the commuter lot are in the same boat.

I get that there is not enough parking, there is not enough parking for students either, I get to campus around 730 every morning so I can get a spot in that lot and not have to walk from Barnwell all the way across campus to Jones. I know there is a problem, I just don't think bumping or increasing the costs to students in the name of satisfying boosters is a good solution.

Why not open up the fairgrounds and offer a shuttle to the CLA? That would be a lot cheaper than building parking garages and the lots are just sitting there empty.
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Old Yesterday, 12:25 PM   #162
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

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Originally Posted by carolina_corpsman View Post
The issue with the parking garages is that they are super expensive $400 or more a semester vs the $100 for a whole year a commuter pass costs. I can not afford a garage pass, and I would assume most of the people who choose to park in the commuter lot are in the same boat.

I get that there is not enough parking, there is not enough parking for students either, I get to campus around 730 every morning so I can get a spot in that lot and not have to walk from Barnwell all the way across campus to Jones. I know there is a problem, I just don't think bumping or increasing the costs to students in the name of satisfying boosters is a good solution.
Parking was an issue when I was in school 25 years ago, so it's not something new that the University in encountering. Except for the fact that they keep putting buildings on top of parking lots, but NOT adding more parking to make up for the loss of parking. Garages are really the only logical solution with the limited amount of space that the University is left with.

Also, the University needs to look at not allowing Freshmen to have cars, as many Universities do, especially since they are requiring them to live on campus.
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Old Yesterday, 12:28 PM   #163
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

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Originally Posted by USCBatgirl21 View Post
Parking was an issue when I was in school 25 years ago, so it's not something new that the University in encountering. Except for the fact that they keep putting buildings on top of parking lots, but NOT adding more parking to make up for the loss of parking. Garages are really the only logical solution with the limited amount of space that the University is left with.

Also, the University needs to look at not allowing Freshmen to have cars, as many Universities do, especially since they are requiring them to live on campus.
See my edited post.

Open up the acres of parking at the Fairgrounds and offer a shuttle up to the CLA. They run from the CLA to Williams Brice for football games, why not just run the other way. No building needed and no additional costs to students.
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Old Yesterday, 12:34 PM   #164
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

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Originally Posted by carolina_corpsman View Post
See my edited post.

Open up the acres of parking at the Fairgrounds and offer a shuttle up to the CLA. They run from the CLA to Williams Brice for football games, why not just run the other way. No building needed and no additional costs to students.
That is a good idea. But again, the University needs to address parking as a whole for students as well, as long as they keep putting buildings on what used to be parking lots, but not adding additional parking. Parking is an issue not just for athletics but the entire University. I see it all the time when I'm at the house. People who live in the GV and have permits to park there, can't park there because other students are taking up the spots because there isn't enough parking on campus.
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Old Yesterday, 12:38 PM   #165
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

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That is a good idea. But again, the University needs to address parking as a whole for students as well, as long as they keep putting buildings on what used to be parking lots, but not adding additional parking as well.
Agreed, its a mess, they keep accepting more and more students, I think I heard this would be the largest incoming freshman class ever, and doing away with the parking or jacking up the cost. $400 a semester just to park is outrageous.
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Old Yesterday, 01:19 PM   #166
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

Seriously freshman parking should've been done away with a long time ago. I personally couldn't afford the Garage spots when I was a student and it didn't really matter, because all the garages were usually sold out anyway. It was beyond frustrating seeing the same cars parked in the exact same spot for weeks on end in the commuter lots.

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Old Yesterday, 09:29 PM   #167
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

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Your question is the exact reason why one year doesn't substantially change the culture around men's basketball here. The fact that we rarely make it to the NCAA tournament is part of the reason why we don't have dedicated fans during non-conference play. Also as a whole South Carolina is very much a football oriented state, so your example wouldn't hold any merit because the fan culture is already in heavy favor towards football than basketball. Again I think sustained success is the only way you can change it so that people start showing up in November-December. What Dawn Staley has done is a perfect example. Even during the games against relatively unknown teams they are still have an attendance much larger than 90% of the other women's programs.

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Here's what I'm getting at.

USC is not a football school because of success. We are a football school because of region. Here's what we've done all-time in football:

8-13 in Bowl Games
2 Conference Titles (1969/ACC, 2010/SEC)
.512 All-Time Record.

That's not a great bar for being a "football school."

I love our school, but for all intents and purposes our football program is historically mediocre. So if we're talking about the basketball team needing to accomplish more for fan support, then I don't understand the bar. The MBB and WBB programs have accomplished more than the football program has historically. The football program doesn't have anything comparable to the NC the WBB team won or the Final 4 appearance of the MBB.

Yet, the entire social scene of the city and school is based around the football program. Again, I understand why that is regionally and financially, but nobody can sit here and play the "prove me more" card with the basketball programs. They have proved more. We know damn well if USC made the college football playoff, that season tickets would be impossible to get the next season. Fan support would be through the roof. It's definitely a double standard.

I don't expect it to ever change. USC could win the national championship next year and non-conference games would still be half full the following season.
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Old Yesterday, 09:34 PM   #168
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

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How are people are supposed to know how long it was since we've been in a final four if they weren't following basketball until last year because they don't follow gamecock basketball? That was one flash in the pan run caused by players that are gone.
That flash in the pan run is more than anything the football program has ever accomplished. Yet, if USC played Nashville Valley State Community College tomorrow, the game would have great attendance.

The "prove more" card isn't valid. People don't support the basketball program consistently because of southern culture and it's not viewed as a huge social event, especially for greek life. It shouldn't be that way, but it is what it is.
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Old Today, 12:53 AM   #169
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

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Originally Posted by TwoNotch Dreams View Post
That flash in the pan run is more than anything the football program has ever accomplished. Yet, if USC played Nashville Valley State Community College tomorrow, the game would have great attendance.

The "prove more" card isn't valid. People don't support the basketball program consistently because of southern culture and it's not viewed as a huge social event, especially for greek life. It shouldn't be that way, but it is what it is.
Do you attend every home basketball game?
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Old Today, 12:58 AM   #170
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

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I don't, nor can I go to every game. That's not the point I'm making though.
So everybody else should. Got it. And, it is EXACTLY the point. Don't excoriate others if you can't or won't meet the standard you expect of everyone else.
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Old Today, 01:34 AM   #171
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

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Originally Posted by TwoNotch Dreams View Post
Here's what I'm getting at.

USC is not a football school because of success. We are a football school because of region. Here's what we've done all-time in football:

8-13 in Bowl Games
2 Conference Titles (1969/ACC, 2010/SEC)
.512 All-Time Record.

That's not a great bar for being a "football school."

I love our school, but for all intents and purposes our football program is historically mediocre. So if we're talking about the basketball team needing to accomplish more for fan support, then I don't understand the bar. The MBB and WBB programs have accomplished more than the football program has historically. The football program doesn't have anything comparable to the NC the WBB team won or the Final 4 appearance of the MBB.

Yet, the entire social scene of the city and school is based around the football program. Again, I understand why that is regionally and financially, but nobody can sit here and play the "prove me more" card with the basketball programs. They have proved more. We know damn well if USC made the college football playoff, that season tickets would be impossible to get the next season. Fan support would be through the roof. It's definitely a double standard.

I don't expect it to ever change. USC could win the national championship next year and non-conference games would still be half full the following season.
I still don't get your point, what exactly have the men's basketball team proved? Last year was only our second appearance in the NCAAT since the turn of the century. At least the football team has been more consistent in bowl appearances and winning records in the same time frame. A single final four run doesn't change how your average fan views basketball at South Carolina. Especially when the 3 of the 4 key players of that team leave at the end of the season. Sustained success builds a fan base more than an unlikely run for a team that practically everyone had already gave up on by the SEC tournament. Don't get me wrong I really love Gamecock basketball, unlike most in the SC it's my favorite sport, but it still doesn't change the fact that overall it's been pretty mediocre as well. Especially in a state where you're basically predetermined to like football, you have to have at the very least some consecutive winning seasons and main tournament appearances to garner the interest you're asking for at this time of year. Frank Martin has done a great job of getting the ball rolling but he still needs a couple more good-great seasons to do it.

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Old Today, 02:07 AM   #172
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

They have a shuttle to the CLAW from the Pendleton Street Garage. There is gobs of on street parking within 6 blocks of the arena. I know people are lazy, but what's a 5-10 minute walk?
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Old Today, 02:44 AM   #173
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

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Originally Posted by GAMEKEM View Post
Your question is the exact reason why one year doesn't substantially change the culture around men's basketball here. The fact that we rarely make it to the NCAA tournament is part of the reason why we don't have dedicated fans during non-conference play. Also as a whole South Carolina is very much a football oriented state, so your example wouldn't hold any merit because the fan culture is already in heavy favor towards football than basketball. Again I think sustained success is the only way you can change it so that people start showing up in November-December. What Dawn Staley has done is a perfect example. Even during the games against relatively unknown teams they are still have an attendance much larger than 90% of the other women's programs.

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I disagree, and the attendance history for WBB doesn't support your argument. Under Walvius, the WBB program rarely ever rose above 2,000 average attendance for home games: her best two seasons coincided with the two most successful seasons during her tenure, which also coincided with the opening of Colonial Life Arena. The best attendance average was the 1st year played in the CLA, with an average 3,244 in 2002-03. It was the lone season under Walvius attendance was north of 3K, and the Gamecocks went 23-8 and went to the NCAAT for the 2nd consecutive season.

In Staley's 1st season as HC in 2008-09, the average attendance was 2,793, then the 2nd-best single-season average attendance in program history. Like with this season for the MBB program, those numbers were more a tally of season tickets sold than actual fannies in seats, as the crowds were even smaller than that. USC went 10-18 (2-12). The next season with McD AA Kelsey Bone on the team, the attendance rose to 3,442, then the program best average, and USC goes 14-15 (7-9).

Attendance actually drops the next 2 seasons, including 2011-12 with an average of 3,139, when the team went 25-10, returns to the NCAAT and reaches the Sweet Sixteen, although the actual numbers of living bodies in CLA started matching the attendance numbers which made it seem like the crowds were growing. But from that point on, the average attendance starts taking substantial jumps upward until by the 2014-15 season USC leads WCBB in average attendance.

No one grumbled about the attendance for WBB, because the success up to that point was moderate and new: USC went 18-15 (8-8) in 2010-11, and reaches the postseason (the NWIT) for the first time under Staley. Attendance was still just shy of 3,000 at 2,996, and supplants the 2008-09 average as 3rd best all-time. Then the next season's average supplants that one as 3rd best all-time - any average attendance numbers north of 3K for WBB home games were actually among the best at that time, so it was hard to voice complaints. No one knew what was coming in the near future.

And the bottom line is, it's still WBB, which is a step down from MBB. If the WBB averages at or just above 10K a game a season, then it's in the annual discussion for leading the nation. If the MBB averages at or just under 10K a game, then it's had a bad year. USC's MBB has now gone to the NIT and NCAAT, and won 51 games in the last two seasons. Reached the Final Four for the 1st time in program history.

After Coach Staley's first foray into the NCAAT at USC, where they reached the Sweet Sixteen, the following season they had 8 OOC home games in front of 30,818 in attendance, for an average of 3,852 per game. They also played 8 home SEC games in front of 32,406, for an average of 4,051 per game.

The average attendance for the OOC home games alone would have set a new program attendance record. As it was, 2012-13 set a new program record for average attendance for a season, the 2nd such time the record was set under Coach Staley. We did set a new attendance record for the MBB last season, but we will have to really step it up this season to come close to matching that. Of course, if we start selling out SEC games come conference season, or coming close to it, it may balance out the season overall and maybe not matter, but we'll be hard pressed to do that.

Sustained success wasn't needed for the WBB program in order to draw record crowds to their games. It's a shame it seems we demand it to be the reason to come to MBB games....

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Old Today, 04:25 AM   #174
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Default Re: Martin on the fans

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I disagree, and the attendance history for WBB doesn't support your argument. Under Walvius, the WBB program rarely ever rose above 2,000 average attendance for home games: her best two seasons coincided with the two most successful seasons during her tenure, which also coincided with the opening of Colonial Life Arena. The best attendance average was the 1st year played in the CLA, with an average 3,244 in 2002-03. It was the lone season under Walvius attendance was north of 3K, and the Gamecocks went 23-8 and went to the NCAAT for the 2nd consecutive season.

In Staley's 1st season as HC in 2008-09, the average attendance was 2,793, then the 2nd-best single-season average attendance in program history. Like with this season for the MBB program, those numbers were more a tally of season tickets sold than actual fannies in seats, as the crowds were even smaller than that. USC went 10-18 (2-12). The next season with McD AA Kelsey Bone on the team, the attendance rose to 3,442, then the program best average, and USC goes 14-15 (7-9).

Attendance actually drops the next 2 seasons, including 2011-12 with an average of 3,139, when the team went 25-10, returns to the NCAAT and reaches the Sweet Sixteen, although the actual numbers of living bodies in CLA started matching the attendance numbers which made it seem like the crowds were growing. But from that point on, the average attendance starts taking substantial jumps upward until by the 2014-15 season USC leads WCBB in average attendance.

No one grumbled about the attendance for WBB, because the success up to that point was moderate and new: USC went 18-15 (8-8) in 2010-11, and reaches the postseason (the NWIT) for the first time under Staley. Attendance was still just shy of 3,000 at 2,996, and supplants the 2008-09 average as 3rd best all-time. Then the next season's average supplants that one as 3rd best all-time - any average attendance numbers north of 3K for WBB home games were actually among the best at that time, so it was hard to voice complaints. No one knew what was coming in the near future.

And the bottom line is, it's still WBB, which is a step down from MBB. If the WBB averages at or just above 10K a game a season, then it's in the annual discussion for leading the nation. If the MBB averages at or just under 10K a game, then it's had a bad year. USC's MBB has now gone to the NIT and NCAAT, and won 51 games in the last two seasons. Reached the Final Four for the 1st time in program history.

After Coach Staley's first foray into the NCAAT at USC, where they reached the Sweet Sixteen, the following season they had 8 OOC home games in front of 30,818 in attendance, for an average of 3,852 per game. They also played 8 home SEC games in front of 32,406, for an average of 4,051 per game.

The average attendance for the OOC home games alone would have set a new program attendance record. As it was, 2012-13 set a new program record for average attendance for a season, the 2nd such time the record was set under Coach Staley. We did set a new attendance record for the MBB last season, but we will have to really step it up this season to come close to matching that. Of course, if we start selling out SEC games come conference season, or coming close to it, it may balance out the season overall and maybe not matter, but we'll be hard pressed to do that.

Sustained success wasn't needed for the WBB program in order to draw record crowds to their games. It's a shame it seems we demand it to be the reason to come to MBB games....
But that data shows that the sustained success of the women's team is what lead to the huge attendance increase. It wasn't until the women's team was a regularly going to the 2nd round/ Sweet 16 (along with the appropriate ranking of being consistent ) or better of the NCAAT that we saw a substantial increase in attendance for 2013 to the present.

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